#1297 - Phil Demers

Joe Rogan (0:02)

Oh, hey, fella, what do you got there? What is that, legal marijuana in your hands?

Phil Demers (0:07)

Do you want a closer look?

Joe Rogan (0:08)

You activist, you?

Phil Demers (0:10)

I'm such a radical, man.

The streets are not safe when I'm out on the loose. Are you radical?

Joe Rogan (0:17)

Seem like a regular guy.

Phil Demers (0:18)

Yeah, regular guy with a irregular amount of stress.

Joe Rogan (0:22)

With the walrus right there.

Phil Demers (0:23)

Dude, you don't mind my putting it there.

Joe Rogan (0:25)

No, no, not at all.

Phil Demers (0:26)

Happy to come back and see it.

Joe Rogan (0:27)

No, it stays on the desk. Yeah, I think this means as much to us as anybody except for you.

Phil Demers (0:33)

Well, it's nice to see it. This is my, this is my happy place. This is my safe place.

I got to travel across the country to be safe, but it's certainly a pleasure to be here again. And Joe, I always have to thank you.

Joe Rogan (0:45)

Listen, thank you too. I was texting Whitney today. I said, you're a hero.

You're a legitimate hero. For people don't know what this is all about. I'll give everybody the backstory.

Phil used to work at Marineland. He was an orca trainer, and he also trained walrus named Smooshy. And Smooshy is still allegedly in captivity at Marineland, although there's no photographic evidence. But you're pretty sure she's still there?

Phil Demers (1:14)

I was told that she is still there, and she's in good shape, and I'm hanging on to that.

Joe Rogan (1:19)

Since you came on the podcast the first time, which was how many years ago now?

Phil Demers (1:23)

So six years ago, I think that's 2013

Joe Rogan (1:25)

So he's been living this lawsuit life for six years, trapped in a lawsuit with a gigantic corporation with incredible amounts of money that's been trying to crush him.

And they've made up stuff. Well, tell me what's happened. Give me your perspective on how it all went down.

Phil Demers (1:46)

Back in 2012, I was forced to make a very difficult decision. I elected to speak out against the conditions of which Marineland's animals were living in.

I did so knowing the risks, knowing that Marineland was a litigious company, but I did so on account of the fact that the animals were suffering incredibly. Before quitting, I had an agreement with Marineland that look, I'm leaving. This is long before I'd spoken out. I'm leaving, but we have to establish that I can maintain this relationship with the walrus because I imprinted on her. It's important to stress that, that she thinks I'm her mom.

Joe Rogan (2:26)

She was a baby.

Phil Demers (2:27)

She was a baby when she came in, so she was wild caught. And you can imagine, probably witnessed her mother get slaughtered. That's the method of collecting babies by the captors in Russia. And so she comes in traumatic at the age of, we estimate about 18 months of age, which is pretty old in fact.

In our experience, Marineland's experience of acquiring these wild caught baby walruses. And through a sort of traumatic experience with her that I was there with her, this anomalous thing happened where her brain circuitry opened up, and much like in the wild where, in the case of herd animals, the babies become familiar with the mother's sound, sense, look, everything. All the senses are acute. They're aware of where they are so that they can find each other amidst these thousands of animals. Well, this happened to her, so the brain circuitry opens. Suddenly, I'm imprinted on her.

I wasn't prepared to leave Marineland unless it was of the understanding that I can continue to help her because historically, my relationship with her had everything to do with her health and well-being.

I quit with the understanding with Marineland. This was to be the case. I'd been gone for a month. I come back unannounced. They don't want to let me in. They're hiding something. I get in. I see her. She's in terrible shape.

I snap a few photos. I leave. Now, amidst this-

Joe Rogan (3:56)

Macy terrible shape, what do you mean?

Phil Demers (3:58)

She was emaciated. She was bone dry. She hadn't eaten in.

My having been gone a month was the longest she and I have ever actually been physically apart. I'd been trying to wean my presence off of her so that other trainers could be able to maintain a healthy diet for her, healthy lifestyle.

Joe Rogan (4:15)

She was emaciated because she wasn't eating because of stress?