#1034 - Sebastian Junger

Joe Rogan (0:09)

Welcome back, man.

Sebastian Junger (0:10)

Hey, thank you, good to be here.

Joe Rogan (0:11)

Great to see you again.

Sebastian Junger (0:12)

Yeah, I like your new spot.

Joe Rogan (0:13)

Thank you, thank you very much. You have a real flip phone.

Sebastian Junger (0:16)

I do have a real flip phone.

Joe Rogan (0:17)

And you said that you didn't go back to it. You never left.

Sebastian Junger (0:21)

I never left her.

Joe Rogan (0:22)

So you never went like iPhone, Android, never?

Sebastian Junger (0:25)

No, no, I never even thought about it.

Joe Rogan (0:27)

Never even thought about it?

Sebastian Junger (0:28)

No.

Joe Rogan (0:29)

You see people taking pictures and using apps, nothing?

Sebastian Junger (0:32)

Nothing, I don't need the apps, I'm good.

Joe Rogan (0:36)

There's no draw at all, using the internet, answering e-mails.

Sebastian Junger (0:40)

I have a laptop at home and I do access the internet, yes.

Joe Rogan (0:45)

But when you're out, you don't want to mess with it?

Sebastian Junger (0:48)

No, when I'm out, I want to be out. I'm in the world, you know?

If you're looking at your phone, you're not in the world and so you don't get either. You don't get either thing.

Joe Rogan (0:56)

You get along very well with my friend Ari.

He went back to a flip phone and he looks disdainfully. Sort of like former alcoholics look at everybody with a drink, like there's no way you could just enjoy one drink, you loser.

Sebastian Junger (1:10)

Right, yeah, no, I just look around at this. I mean, I'm an anthropologist and I'm interested in human behavior and I look at the behavior, like literally the physical behavior of people with smartphones and it doesn't, it looks anti-social and unhappy and anxious. And I don't want to look like that. And I don't want to feel like I think those people feel.

Joe Rogan (1:32)

Wow, that's deep. I'm a junkie.

You know, it's really interesting because I was at a restaurant the other day and I was looking around and literally everyone in the restaurant was looking at their phone. No one was talking to anybody. And I was thinking, what if there was a drug that did that? What if there was a drug that didn't kill you, but it just sucked up all your time and you just stared blankly at your hand and did everything that you do while you're using a phone? People would be terrified, like you're staring at your hand and crashing into cars, you're staring at your hand and walking in the polls.

Sebastian Junger (2:02)

Yeah, I mean, there is a drug. It's that, it's social media. I mean, I think the big lie of our generation is the phrase social media. It really isn't. It's anti-social media.

And it has a lot of uses and whatever, but it's not social in any human sense. And if you look at suicide rates, depression rates, PTSD rates, anxiety rates, they're doing nothing but going up in our society. Mass shootings, just something tragic just happened yesterday.

All those things, they're indicators of something and they're all going up in our society despite the fact that we're a very wealthy, powerful, relatively peaceful society. Like something's going on. I can't prove that it's the internet or social media, I mean, obviously, but the fact that those things are happening at the same time does make me wonder that these new devices certainly don't bring happiness because the numbers are going in the wrong direction.

Joe Rogan (2:54)

Well, I don't think they're designed to bring happiness, but they're certainly designed to give you access to information. Perhaps maybe with some discipline, they can be used in some sort of a way that benefits us and not...

Sebastian Junger (3:05)

Well, yeah, I mean, all that information is available on your laptop at your desk at home.

Joe Rogan (3:09)

Right.

Sebastian Junger (3:09)

I mean, I think the problem is when people want to be socially connected constantly no matter what they're doing. And that, I think, keeps people from actually fully experiencing whatever they're actually doing.

Joe Rogan (3:25)

I think there's definitely some truth to that, but I do like the fact that I can ask my phone questions.

Like, if I don't know anything and I can add it. There's a new feature on this Google Pixel where you squeeze the side of it and the Google Assistant comes up and you can ask your questions. You squeeze it and ask a question. I mean, that's some space-age shit, man.

Sebastian Junger (3:43)

Yeah, or it's downright creepy. I mean, you know, that's how you look at it. I mean, I get it. Like, I mean, you have all of human knowledge in your front pocket accessible at every moment. Like, I do understand the power of it and the appeal of it.