#1 Marty Cagan - Transformed: Moving to the Product Operating Model

**Thomas Hartmann** (0:01)
Welcome to the Product Masterclass Podcast. In today's episode, we sit down with Marty Cagan to dive into his latest book, Transformed. We will explore how companies can successfully shift to a product operating model. And we'll also discuss what inspired the book, Practical Solutions for CPOs to Drive Transformation and the Critical Role of CEOs in Driving Changes. Marty shares insights on balancing top-down versus bottom-up transformation and how individual contributors, so PMs and POs, can influence their organizations. We will also discuss the impact of AI on product teams and touch on the differences between European and American companies in navigating transformation. So tune in to learn how to win hearts and minds in your organization and lead meaningful change.

**Thomas Hartmann** (1:02)
And here we go, we are live with Marty Cagan, welcome, Marty.

**Marty Cagan** (1:08)
Thanks very much, Thomas, good to be back with you.

**Thomas Hartmann** (1:12)
Yeah, or good morning, so to say, right? You just said it's 8 o'clock in the morning, we have here 4 o'clock in the afternoon. It's great to have you back. And Marty, you just released a new book, Publishing Date Today. How does that feel if you stand up and the book is out?

**Marty Cagan** (1:34)
Yeah, the book is out. I just, it's funny because, you know, usually American companies release in the US first and then Europe later. In this case, it was released in Europe 3 weeks before the US. So, it's only today that most Americans got a copy. So, that's fine.

**Thomas Hartmann** (1:59)
Yeah. I just had one guy from India complaining that, you know, like, that the book is a little bit late in India. He would prefer if it's first shipped in India. So, next time, maybe. Okay. Marty, I just, you know, like, I don't need to introduce you. Everybody who is in watching, I guess, knows you, because you just, you know, like, years, you shaped the picture of product management in the last years and the last century, 10 years, 20 years, 40 years, yeah. You worked 40 years in product management, right? I think it inspired, yeah, you wrote in 2008, if I'm correct, right? It was for product manager and discovery. Then you moved up the level with Empowered on team level, on team level, right? And now, transformed.
What is it, you know, like, what is the main idea, you know, with transformed? What do you want to change in the world with this book?

**Marty Cagan** (3:11)
Yeah, transform is different. It's a little different. The idea was, well, like you said, with inspired, we wanted to share the techniques of discovery and product teams, and in Empowered, we wanted to focus on product leaders. And the good news was a lot of people told us they really liked the books.

**Thomas Hartmann** (3:28)
That's good news.

**Marty Cagan** (3:29)
The bad news is they, so many people told us that they didn't think it was possible for them to change. They just thought, they just said, if you saw our company, I can't tell you how many people say, if you saw our company, you would know it's impossible for us to change, to work this way. Our managers, our leaders, our company, we're just never going to work that way. And we've been working with companies for 20 years. Mostly that's what we do is help them change. And so we knew that wasn't true. But what we wanted to do was prove it and show people how to change. So the other works are really about how to do product. This book is how to change so that you can do product well. And we wanted to both show people real case studies. And by the way, one of the things that I think is special about this book is unlike the other ones, all the examples are outside of Silicon Valley. So they're not Silicon Valley. Because most Silicon Valley companies are born in this model. But that's not true in a lot of the world. So what we wanted to do is show companies that literally change. We didn't want to hide the fact that it's hard, because it is hard to change. But we wanted to show that it is possible. And then I think the most important part is we wanted to show what those companies were able to do after they transform.
So that the level of innovation is what we do. And so the book highlights companies all over the world. You know, in several in Europe, several, one of my favorites in Saudi Arabia, which is not known as the Tech Hub, but just did an amazing job, in healthcare regulated industry, in B2B SaaS and all these areas that so many people think it's not possible. And we wanted to show it is possible.