How Hyperliquid Becomes the Backend for ALL of Finance | Tushar Jain

**David** (0:02)
Multicoin provides investment advice to certain private funds that own hype tokens discussed herein and stands to gain in the event of that price of the token increasing. Multicoin's hype valuation report discussed in the podcast can be found as a link in the show notes. The report includes important disclosures concerning the data and assumptions by Multicoin discussed today. Also, any trading discussion is for informational purposes only and is not a recommendation to engage in derivatives leverage or any specific trading strategy. Bankless Nation, I'm back with Tushar Jain. He's a partner at Multicoin and a co-author on Multicoin's recent investment analysis paper on Hyperliquid, which is going to be the subject of today's podcast. And since we have Multicoin on and since Multicoin's size is size, I have to tell you that although our guest this week is a managing partner of a registered investment advisor, nothing in this podcast should be considered an offer of Multicoin's investment advisory services or should otherwise be confused for investment tax legal or other financial advice. Tushar, how are you doing, dude?

**Tushar Jain** (0:59)
I'm doing great.

**David** (1:00)
Bankless Nation, a quick pause in my episode with Tushar, so I can talk to you about OKX. Did you know the Intercontinental Exchange, the parent company of the New York Stock Exchange backed OKX at a $25 billion valuation with a plan to launch tokenized New York Stock Exchange stocks and derivatives later this year on OKX. This is TradFi and DeFi in the same app trusted by over 120 million users globally. OKX is bringing products to the US market that Wall Street has been talking about for years.
This is the new money app from OKX, not just a vision but a roadmap with institutional backing to execute it. So if that got you peaked, you can get a 6% deposit match by using the link in the show notes to try out OKX, but not if you are a citizen of New York or Texas, not investment advice. Let's get back to the episode with Tushar. I think perps have just captured the attention of basically almost all of crypto, I would say.

**Tushar Jain** (1:56)
Would you agree? Not just crypto, TradFi too. I mean, you saw this announcement from the CME that they're suing the CFTC for approving onshore perps, and there's nothing that tells you you've hit product market fit more than an incumbent suing to try and protect their monopoly.
So I think perps have captured more than just crypto's attention.

**David** (2:19)
Yeah, the incumbent getting scared is definitely what you want to see.
I'd also say it's a bear case though, because comparing crypto to AI, AI doesn't have an incumbent to really go up against, and crypto, when we ran up against the incumbents, it really slowed the industry down. So while seeing the CME get scared is obviously exactly what we want, one part of me is like, oh, they're going to fight us though.

**Tushar Jain** (2:45)
The AI definitely has an incumbent to go up against, and that's human intelligence with political will behind it.

**David** (2:52)
Sure, sure.

**Tushar Jain** (2:54)
There is an incumbent. If you're building something new and disruptive, there's always some barrier to go up against, and you have to welcome the challenge and want to go up and face that challenge. I'm very bullish on AI, and I'm also very bullish on burps, I think. The fact that there are challenges is not in any way bearish.

**David** (3:15)
In the paper that you wrote, Tushar, you said, At $63, we believe the market is deeply mispricing hype, viewing it too narrowly as just a fast growing perpdex. So if hyperliquid is more than just a fast growing perpdex, what is it?

**Tushar Jain** (3:29)
I think hyperliquid has the potential to, starting with its perpdex roots, and expand into being the place for the everything exchange, where anyone anywhere can get exposure to any asset or event contract or derivative that they want to. So at a high level, I think that's the very bullish case for hype, is that it started out as a perpdex, but then it becomes the backend of a global DeFi mullet and powers the everything exchange.

**David** (4:10)
The everything exchange is a phrase I've been hearing more and more lately. Everyone kind of wants to be the everything exchange. I think Robinhood maybe just spawned that idea in the first place way back when, at least like the everything exchange for retail. Coinbase wants to be the everything exchange. Hyperliquid is becoming a platform.
Is this the same fight as some of these competitors that I just named, or just the broad desire to be the everything exchange, or is hyperliquid's idea of an everything exchange, or your idea for hyperliquid as an everything exchange? Is that different in any particular way?