You Might Also Like: Stateside with Kai and Carter

**Jenna Amatulli** (0:00)
If nothing else, I mean, the Lindsay Clancy case has been the case that has put motherhood in America under a microscope. We need to be paying attention to what is happening to a mother's care in the aftermath of her giving birth. How do we make sure that that mother is in best state possible to continue mothering the child she just had and if she had any other children prior to that? And we're clearly failing at that.

**Carter Sherman** (0:31)
From The Guardian, this is Stateside. I'm Carter Sherman.

**Kai Wright** (0:34)
I'm Kai Wright.

**Carter Sherman** (0:35)
Today, what women see in the Lindsay Clancy case. Kai, I am just going to say it. The maternal health care system in this country, it sucks.

**Kai Wright** (0:43)
Trash.

**Carter Sherman** (0:44)
Absolutely trash. Yeah. As you know, I cover gender and sexuality for 10 years and in that job, I spent a lot of time covering our reproductive health care system, our maternal health care system, our postnatal health care system.
I've been thinking a lot in that time about all the ways that this country just fails moms. Did you know, for example, that a recent study found that the United States has the highest prevalence of self-reported postpartum depression among all developed countries?

**Kai Wright** (1:10)
It's an unsurprising stat to me. But how high actually is it?

**Carter Sherman** (1:13)
That didn't surprise you?

**Kai Wright** (1:14)
It does not.

**Carter Sherman** (1:16)
The reason I was surprised is because it was more than 80 percent, which is stunning.

**Kai Wright** (1:21)
That's a stunning number.

**Carter Sherman** (1:22)
That is, what is that? That's four out of five moms. They say that they have postpartum depression.

**Kai Wright** (1:27)
That is a stunning number. You know, and it's one more indictment of just how horrible both pre and postnatal care is in the United States.

**Carter Sherman** (1:36)
The reason I am bringing this up now is because, as we both know, there is a criminal trial underway right now in Massachusetts that is very much shining a light on the difficulties of being a mom in the United States. And I just want to give a warning to our audience here. We are going to talk about the details of this case. It involves a woman named Lindsay Clancy, and some of the information involved is pretty horrific. So please take care of yourselves. Skip this episode if you can't do it.

**Kai Wright** (2:00)
So those details. Lindsay Clancy is a woman from Duxbury, Massachusetts, which is a nice suburb of Boston. She and her now ex-husband Patrick had three kids, Cora, five, Dawson, three, and Callan, eight months. And after Callan was born, Lindsay started going from doctor to doctor to doctor, seeking help for what sounds like some really quite profound mental health issues. And then in January of 2023, Lindsay sent Patrick out on an errand. And while he was out of the house, Lindsay strangled her three children with exercise bands.
After that, Lindsay jumped out of the second story of their house. The fall did not kill her, but it did paralyze her from the waist down.

**Carter Sherman** (2:52)
It's just really awful to hear all those details over again, because it's so stark and it's so sad that this happened to a family.
Lindsay is now on trial for murder. The prosecution says that Lindsay meticulously planned these murders, that she sent Patrick out of the house on purpose in order to have the time to do it. But while Lindsay has admitted to killing the kids, she has actually pled not guilty by reason of insanity. And her defense says that she was in the throes of a rare condition called postpartum psychosis, that she heard a voice telling her to kill the kids, and that when Lindsay tried to get help for those mental health issues, that she was failed. This case, as you might imagine, has really caught fire on the internet. Social media is filled right now with armchair diagnoses and conspiracy theories about not only Lindsay but Patrick Clancy too.

**Kai Wright** (3:38)
Which is frustrating and sad.

**Carter Sherman** (3:39)
It is on so many levels. But the thing that surprised me is that the internet is also filled with, I would say, a stunning degree of empathy for Lindsay. She did something monstrous, and yet it still seems like many women are seeing themselves in her and are seeing, in this case, evidence of our broken maternal health care system. It feels really complicated for me, particularly as a woman. And so I wanted to process this with someone who has been following this case very closely, Jenna Amatulli, our Deputy Head of News here at The Guardian US. I wanted to ask Jenna, what is Lindsay Clancy and the reaction to her reveal about how we treat moms in the United States?