What does the American flag mean to you?

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
Support for Here and Now Anytime comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:16)
WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

**Carol Burnside** (0:22)
I love our country and our flag unconditionally. That does not mean uncritically.

**Chris Bentley** (0:32)
Reflecting on what it means to be an American as the country turns 250 years old.
It's Friday, July 3rd, and this is Here and Now Anytime from NPR and WBUR. I'm Chris Bentley.
It is Independence Day weekend, and a big birthday for the United States. 250 years ago, the Second Continental Congress formally adopted the Declaration of Independence. We are marking the occasion by talking to people about the flag. Fun fact, the flag wasn't formally adopted until almost a year after the official founding of the country on what would become Flag Day, June 14th, 1777 But the flag is still a potent symbol for many Americans. A little later, we'll hear a conversation between a Bangladeshi immigrant and his son, who feel quite differently about the country today and about the American flag.

**Sultan Chowdhury** (1:41)
The flag does not represent an administration or the current government. I think the flag represents the country that we live and we love.

**Chris Bentley** (1:52)
But first, we've been asking you for your reflections on the flag, and producer Ashley Locke has been listening to them all. Ashley, you asked people what seeing the flag makes them feel, and they had a lot to say, didn't they?

**Ashley Locke** (2:06)
Yes. I will say that it has forever changed how I feel myself when I see the flag. When I'm driving around now, every day, I see flags hanging from people's mailboxes, from their homes, at cemeteries, on the back of trucks.
And I think people have very personal reasons for flying the flag, and it's very nuanced and not necessarily what you would think. So one of the listeners that I wanted to share with you is Suzanne Wiley. She's from Hot Springs, Arkansas. She really feels deeply about the flag, and she sent us a voice memo after seeing the flag in person at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History.

**Suzanne Wiley** (2:48)
I believe it was the most moving experience I've had in a long, long time. It represented so much to me, our country, our soldiers that fought and died, and the future for my grandchildren.
I don't even know what else to say, except that it represents everything I love about America. And it's been very difficult for me these last few months with the turmoil that we've been in as a country. But on the 4th of July, I will put my flag out to say that I'm a proud American.

**Chris Bentley** (3:25)
Wow. She was really moved by seeing the flag.

**Ashley Locke** (3:28)
Yeah, you can hear her tearing up. And I think that's kind of, I would say the classic emotion that you might expect someone to feel about the flag.

**Chris Bentley** (3:37)
Yeah. I mean, I know she said like in the last few months, maybe alluding to some political developments or we're not, I'm not exactly sure. But otherwise, it seems like a very timeless kind of sentiment about the flag. Just seeing this symbol of stars and stripes is extremely moving. And for some people, it represents everything they love about this country. What else did you hear from some people about how they're flying the flag or how they're thinking about the flag in this moment?

**Ashley Locke** (4:02)
Yeah. I think people have a lot of complicated feelings. We heard from a lot of people that are sad right now. They're fearful, they're angry.
I think about my son has this children's book about emotions and feelings and it's okay to have feelings. And I kept trying to separate listeners into categories like, these people are pro-flag and these people are con-flag and these people are happy and these people are sad and I realized that it was really hard to do that and it's not what real life is like. People are complicated, they have mixed emotions. I think a lot of what's been happening in our country over the last couple of years with immigration, a lot of people mentioned January 6th and the insurrection and people bringing flags to the Capitol.
A lot of people are having mixed emotions. Some people usually fly the flag. They have their flags folded up in a garage. They're waiting for the time to feel right. Other people flying their flag even if they feel complicated feelings right now.

**Chris Bentley** (5:03)