What Did an Anonymous Caller Claim About Where Nancy Guthrie Was Taken?

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
This is The Big Breakdown, a long look back at some of the biggest stories we're covering for you at the Hidden Killers Podcast and True Crime Today. This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Dreeke.

**Tony Brueski** (0:18)
Here we are, we're going to solve the case, as we always do every Friday, on the Nancy Guthrie investigation. Nancy Guthrie is 84 years old. She has no known crypto currency holding. She lives in the Catalina Foothills, one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Tucson, and a $2 billion cybersecurity company has classified her alleged abduction as a wrench attack by proxy, a crime built around crypto extortion. So here's a question that nobody's been asking out loud yet, and I want to ask it today. What if whoever showed up at Nancy Guthrie's door that night was at the wrong house?
And it's a wrench attack, and this is a mope.
And once they were there, once an 84-year-old woman had seen them, they had a problem they couldn't walk away from. If that's what's happened, this isn't a case that the public thinks it is, and the real target may still be living in the neighborhood. Again it's coming from the ethers of my brain, it's not coming from any verifiable information, but since we're hitting dead ends everywhere, I wanted to throw it out there. And joining us to have this conversation, Jennifer Coffendaffer, retired FBI Special Agent, and Robin Dreeke, retired FBI Special Agent, Chief of the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. So there you go. That's my layperson idea that came to my mind when I was like, what if it just was the wrong house? It would kind of lean into the wrench attack and a mope in somebody that's not super experienced in this. And goes to the wrong house. Is it a crazy idea, Jen?

**Jennifer Coffendaffer** (1:57)
You know, look, everything has to be on the table at this point with what we have. But I don't think that that's probably very likely. And this is why part of the reason is I really believe this was well planned out, even in terms of the fact that they did those ransom demands the day after.
I don't think it was just something like, whoa, I think now I'll do a ransom demand. I think it was well thought out. They knew the two Tucson stations they were going to send that to, which happened very quickly. 12 hours later, TMZ. I think this was just too well planned. And Savannah and her husband are worth over $45 million. It's the perfect target.

**Tony Brueski** (2:37)
I agree. Let me ask you this about the ransom. Because if we're connecting the ransom, and I've been always so probably too cautious on connecting the dots of the ransom to the actual crime itself. I've immediately been thinking this is all people, opportunists trying to get money. How do we know this? And maybe Robin could run a stat on this.
When someone is kidnapped, how quickly, especially like in a higher profile, how quickly do those ransom demands start coming in? And how quickly do the fake ransom demands start coming in? Is this a relatively short period of time for the initial ransom demands to be an opportunist? Is it just too quick for someone to go, I'm going to take advantage of that?

**Jennifer Coffendaffer** (3:25)
Well, I can't wait to see what Robin comes up with, but I think it's going to be within three days.
That's my kind of recollection of that stats in front of me. Three days that a ransom demand and obviously some are sooner. And it also depends on who took them. Are we talking about-

**Robin Dreeke** (3:46)
Within 24 hours.

**Jennifer Coffendaffer** (3:47)
Drugged, yeah, that's what I was going to say.

**Tony Brueski** (3:49)
For legitimate ones?

**Robin Dreeke** (3:51)
60 to 75% within 24 hours, 48 hours, 85 to 90%. So everything within 48 hours for legit ones.

**Tony Brueski** (3:59)
And if 12 hours is where they hit at, put some weight on them.

**Robin Dreeke** (4:04)
Yeah, so it's within the legit.

**Tony Brueski** (4:06)
Yeah.

**Robin Dreeke** (4:08)
I'll do a reverse now.

**Tony Brueski** (4:10)
Sure.

**Jennifer Coffendaffer** (4:10)
So it's within the legit, and I would say, too, that the majority of those demands are gang bangers, drug dealers, people who demand right away.
Because that's the majority of ransom demands that come in. That's just...

**Robin Dreeke** (4:29)
Within 24 hours for fake ones as well.

**Tony Brueski** (4:34)
Interesting. Robin, what's your take on this idea, this theory that I have, before we go to the next question? Because I'm curious to get your thoughts on me throwing that one out into the table.