Using Stem Cells to Cure Autism, Epilepsy & Schizophrenia | Dr. Sergiu Pașca

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Sergiu Pașca. Dr. Sergiu Pașca is a professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences, and the director of the Stanford Brain Organogenesis Program. During today's episode, we discuss autism, schizophrenia, and human brain development generally. Both brain development during pregnancy, as well as during childhood, and leading all the way up to our third decade of life. During today's discussion, you will get the most up-to-date information about autism and its treatments. You'll learn why the prevalence of autism is rising, the role that genes play in autism, and the novel treatments that Dr. Pașca is developing to treat what is called profound autism, which are the most severe cases of autism. Dr. Pașca is one of a small handful of researchers that pioneered the discovery and development of what are called organoids and assembloids, which are essentially human brain circuits derived from stem cells that form in a dish so that one can study them directly. And while that might sound artificial, today he explains why those organoids and assembloids are immensely powerful for understanding exactly what is wrong in psychiatric illnesses like profound autism, schizophrenia, and other psychiatric challenges, and for developing cures. So today you're going to learn a lot about human brain development and about stem cells, which is going to be important for anyone interested in how the brain wires up, how to treat various diseases of the brain, but also for anyone who is considering stem cell therapies. As you'll soon learn, Sergiu is an extraordinary scientist, but also an extraordinary teacher. By the end of today's episode, you'll have the latest information on stem cells, organoids, autism, and what is being done to cure autism and other psychiatric conditions. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. Sergiu Pașca. Dr. Sergiu Pașca, welcome. Thank you.

**Sergiu Pașca** (2:11)
It's great to be here.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:12)
We're old friends, shared a laboratory space years ago. We'll get back to that a little later. In the meantime, these days, there's a ton of interest and I think misunderstanding about autism. As soon as the topic of autism comes up, immediately some people will say, why are we trying to cure this thing? I know autistic children and adults that are delightful people that lead functional lives. They might be a little bit different or a lot different than other people, but why are we trying to quote unquote cure autism? And then other people will say, well, there are people with autism who need constant care, who will never live independently. Tell us about autism, what this spectrum really is, and then we'll talk about what your laboratory is doing to try and literally find cures for the most debilitating forms of autism.

**Sergiu Pașca** (3:03)
Well, autism is a complex condition. It's a spectrum, as you said. In a way, you could say autism and neurodevelopmental disorders. It's behaviorally defined, there's no biomarker. So, in a way, it's a condition that is defined exclusively by observing behavior, which is actually the case for most psychiatric disorders. But it's essentially diagnosed by the presence and absence of certain behaviors in a certain period of time or up to a certain age. And of course, what triggered, I think, a lot of discussions in recent years is because the number or the prevalence of autism has increased. So now it's close to almost 3% of the general population, which of course, it's a big number.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:52)
3%?

**Sergiu Pașca** (3:52)
Almost 3%, yes.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:54)
Wow.

**Sergiu Pașca** (3:54)
So it has increased, even since I was in medical school. When I was in medical school, actually, it was considered a rare disease. The reason why I actually studied autism, because it was a very rare disease, and we had very few resources, so we thought studying a rare disease would be easier. But now we also know so much more about this condition. So we do know, for instance, that there is a strong genetic component to it, which for a while, obviously, we didn't. In fact, in early days, the psychoanalytic perspective dominated, especially in the 50s and 60s. So it was thought that it was resulting from having very cold parents, in particular, a cold mother.