The Gem Vault, Gilgo Beach, and the Code — Nancy Guthrie, Rex Heuermann, Mackenzie Shirilla

**SPEAKER_1** (0:01)
This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Dreeke.

**Tony Brueski** (0:08)
Five months, no suspect name, no arrest, over a hundred federal agents, and Nancy Guthrie's family is still waiting for a phone call that has not come. You guys have had a lot of questions about the Nancy Guthrie case, and you've been living inside this now almost half a year at this point.
People have been looking at satellite images, time-stamping surveillance footage, building theories. You got questions, we're going to try our best to give you some sort of answers as best we can without going down conspiracy roads too much, but we're more than welcome to examine and parse out any questions you may have. So feel free to drop them in the comment section on Substack, and YouTube, and Facebook, and X, and whatever you're watching us live on right now. And if you're watching the replay, go ahead and drop your questions too. We do read them and we can bring them up to another conversation. We're going to talk about Nancy Guthrie this morning. We're also going to be talking about Rex Heuermann answering some of your questions there, and Mackenzie Shirilla from The Crash. So questions on any of those cases, queue them up and drop them here in the comment section. Joining me, as always, Robin Dreeke, retired FBI Special Agent, Chief of the Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program. Robin, I've been kind of going down this rabbit hole. I think it was like Friday afternoon I texted you and Todd going, I think I know what it is, as I've done, I think probably 10 times now in the last half a year. But I don't know, this idea, this area that we were talking about with Coffendaffer the other day, I've been doing more research on, I feel like it may have some legs and it may have make some sense.
If there's anything to be made sense of here, where so much does not. I'm going to start introducing this with a question from a listener. It says Nancy's neighbor has a YouTube channel where he shows a walk-in vault full of high-value gems and minerals. High-end gem dealer in the area has been on the board. I'm just telling you what I've researched, of whatever the gem group there is in the Tucson area. There was a big convention going on at the time of her disappearance. There's a lot of people in town for this. We're talking about world-class gem collecting. This isn't just some side-of-the-road gem stand or something at the checkout, at the amusement park. It's a serious collecting. This is serious money in that sort of a world. Literally, Nancy's neighbor.
I've been saying it for a little bit. What if they went to the wrong house? What if they just simply went to the wrong house? You could literally throw a gem from Nancy's house and hit Gem Guy's house. No way do I think Gem Guy has anything to do with this in terms of any culpability of Nancy disappearing. But more so, I'd be counting my lucky stars saying, I'm glad I didn't get kidnapped because I think that this person likely had a lot more likelihood, a lot more to give up than possibly Nancy did. What if these guys showed up at the wrong door? What's your thoughts, Robin?

**Robin Dreeke** (3:21)
Yeah, it's really, really interesting, Tony. By the way, welcome to the Camper Game. We're on the road. Starling got my pucky shirt on because my wife said I need to do something to demonstrate I'm on the road.
Yeah, I think it's got as equal legs as anything else right now. Here's what I'm thinking. Even as you're saying that, Todd, Tony, I thought of one more thing.
From the very get-go, I think everyone can agree that they were going for the intent of whoever did this was to get something in this house. What's been going back and forth was what was that intended target? Was it Nancy herself or something else in that house of value? 41 minutes or 42 minutes in the house said to me and a few others, but not everyone that they couldn't find what they're looking for, surprise, whatever it was, was Nancy aware, not aware that all the parts where it falls apart from national intent. This, now them targeting gems, because remember, I actually looked up that was she known to have any jewelry, that they would have had a high value on it and it wasn't known. Again, we gotta also be very careful and that's why this is a challenge. We don't know what law enforcement knows right now because this theory to me has as much legs right now as anything else. Where it loses me a bit is because we haven't had any leakage from anyone, neighbors, law enforcement, FBI, or anyone saying that they've followed up on this theory and debunked it or didn't do it. It's just been silence on this. But here's an interesting thing I want to add to it gives it a little bit more legs for me too. Remember, law enforcement spent a lot of time with Annie, Annie's car, Annie's house. Annie also was part of this thing that happened in that town, that jewelry convention because Annie's also a jeweler. That's why I thought there might have been a tie to jewelry because of her and then along. So why were they interviewing Annie so much? From my perspective, not because she was ever a suspect, again, the family out first, but maybe she actually has a lot of knowledge about the people, places and things that were going on at the jewelry thing because they thought that might have been a target as well.