The Art of Learning & Living Life | Josh Waitzkin

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Josh Waitzkin. Josh Waitzkin is a former child prodigy who began playing the game of chess at six years old, and by the time he was 16 years old, had become a national champion many times over, as well as an international champion. In fact, he achieved the level of international master, which is one of the highest levels of achievement in the game of chess for anyone of any age. His early life achievements were the topic and focus of the book and movie Searching for Bobby Fischer. He then quit playing the game of chess and moved on to martial arts, the study of philosophy at Columbia University in New York, and eventually foiling, which is essentially surfing over the water. Josh is not only a high performer, he has now become perhaps the most sought after professional coach in the domains of finance, in the domains of creative endeavors, professional sports and military. Today's episode is one of my favorite Huberman Lab podcast episodes ever. I know as a podcast host, you're not supposed to say that, but it's absolutely true, because not only is Josh Waitzkin so highly accomplished, but he is an exceptional teacher of the learning process. He took what he learned in chess and about learning chess and applied that to martial arts, to foiling, et cetera. And from participating in all those endeavors, he was able to distill out the essential elements of learning and how to tailor one's learning process to one's own unique personality and style, flaws and tendency to make mistakes, and how to leverage all of that in order to be able to learn better. In fact, throughout today's episode, I promise that you will constantly be reflecting on where you experience things like tension and fear, both in your personal life, your professional life, your educational life, whatever it is that you're trying to learn and pursue in life. Today's conversation, thanks to Josh, will allow you to look at that, understand it better, and know where to apply work, when to relax, when to push forward, and in effect, how to become a better learner, both of yourself and whatever it is that you happen to be pursuing in life. We have a saying in science, which is that sometimes you encounter somebody who is truly N of one, meaning a sample size of one in a category all by themselves. Josh Waitzkin is truly an N of one. I know of no other person like him or even close to him in terms of his ability to live a unique life path and to take what he learns and to put it out into the world so that others may benefit. He lives with a tremendous amount of intentionality for the people he loves, for the things he loves, and with the intention of helping others learn how to learn better. I must say it was a true honor to sit down with Josh. I've been a huge fan of his work for a very long time. You'll also learn that he's a really nice person. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, this podcast episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Josh Waitzkin. Josh Waitzkin, welcome.

**Josh Waitzkin** (3:23)
Thank you, man. Great to be here.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:25)
I feel like I've known you a long time because I saw the search for Bobby Fischer and I learned about the real human that was about you. And I read The Art of Learning. And I must say I'm a fan and somewhat obsessed with the uniqueness of your arc and the choices you've made and your understanding of learning as a process and its universal properties, its specific properties in different contexts. So I'm excited to dive in. I think for people that perhaps are not familiar with you, maybe you could just give us a broad overview of your back story, like the things that you've really focused on in kind of chunks, if you will, just for a couple of minutes so that people can get familiar with the incredible things you've done. And I think that reflects the uniqueness of your choice making process, which then we'll get into.

**Josh Waitzkin** (4:18)
Yeah, sure. Well, thank you, man. It's an honor. I appreciate what you said.