Rex Heuermann: What His Therapist Was Really Hiding

**SPEAKER_1** (0:01)
This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Dre.

**Robin Dre** (0:07)
Last case, and this one is really, this is through the Rex Heuermann case, really a sunder for me. Anyway, Rex Heuermann spent 17 years hiding in plain sight, married, working as an architect in Manhattan, living a few miles from where he dumped the bodies. Then in April, he pleaded guilty to eight murders and one flat, emotionalist afternoon. And in June, a judge gave him three life sentences plus 100 years and told him to his face he was a coward. He's sitting in Clinton Correctional now, agreeing to sit down with the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit. And while at least one victim known as only Asian Doe still doesn't have her name back. And that's the question that keeps landing in the inbox. If it took three decades and this much luck to catch one man, how many more Rex Heuermans are out there right now thinking on the same thing he did, and nobody would look too hard for the women he chose. Anyway, also with this too, I definitely want to go down the road of the therapist because that is just amazing to me. Anyway, what do you all think?

**Lisa** (1:10)
That's where a lot of the questions are coming in because if the therapist isn't licensed and any of that she presented to courts or whatever, can all of that, does all of that now fruit of the poison tree? Does it have to be tossed? She wasn't licensed. Is anything like that? I mean, does this set him up for an appeal that'll get him out of a guilty plea?

**Robin Dre** (1:37)
No, we asked Eric that on on Thursday. He said no.

**Lisa** (1:40)
Oh, OK.

**Robin Dre** (1:41)
I got at least you're so on as I asked that same question of Eric, our our prosecutor and defense attorney, because I was like, I was worried that that might overturn things or give them grounds for appeal. No, it does not. So I did a deeper dive on how could this possibly happen? And it's actually incumbent upon the Correctional Institute and their mental health unit to actually do the verifications of anyone coming in there as a therapist to work with clients. And also it's on the lawyer that actually did the recommendation as well to do due diligence. And no one did that due diligence. But I want to hit on something here that's been really interesting on this one to me. This to me, so I'm going to start my little weekly thing I was telling Todd about of doing on our show on Mondays, the weekly behavioral wobble or the tempo tell as I call them.
This therapist gave me the wobble, gave us all the wobble. And it gave us a wobble in two areas. One, also living in the bedroom of the murderer after the remodel, all of us. We asked Siobhan, our amazing psychotherapist, on Wednesdays, what's going on with that? What therapist would recommend this? And now, to Siobhan's great credit, she's given a lot of grace to the therapist because she can't tell the client what to do or not to do, kind of help guide them towards their healing, which was really spot on. But it was still, the fact that Asa's living in that room was a wobble to me. I'll tell you what the biggest wobble before that happened was, just watching the Peacock special, I'm looking at this therapist spilling her guts about her clients. And I remember asking Siobhan about this as well.
What therapist would actually spill their guts so much on TV about their clients? Both of them about what's going on. So again, when you see a wobble like that, and I don't know for a fact, but I think that's what drew the attention for people to do this deep dive and find out, oh, you're a fraud because you had two big wobbles going on there. Because when we see the wobbles doesn't mean something's right or wrong. It just attracts our attention. Those behaviors are what attracted my attention.

**Lisa** (3:56)
It's interesting that you mentioned what therapist would be talking about their clients in a situation like that because I would think that all of that would fall under HIPAA. And even if you did sign away your privacy rights, I think that that's definitely a problematic.

**Robin Dre** (4:18)
I imagine that it's the other therapists out there that saw that. And regardless of the fact that you signed it away, the fact that they did that anyway. Because again, what's the intent?
You always look at intent. What was her intent about going on Peacock and speaking so? It wasn't like she's in the background. She took a front row seat of this. So that was definitely profitable for her to do it until it was too much. And it was exposed. Todd, you're about to say something?