How to Make Yourself Unbreakable | DJ Shipley

**DJ Shipley** (0:00)
I had a lot of emotional stuff happen to me in that second deployment. You know, my idol, Matty Roberts, I've talked about him a couple of times. I really, really hung on to that dude. Like, he was my true north. He was the guy. And when he got shot up, when you see it happen, you know, I think that was the closest call for fire mission of the entire Iraq war.
Like, inside 15 meters. I mean, Cordy Mike Mike, my AC-130 gunship, I mean, it was on top of you. A bell-fed machine gun just chewing us up. Everybody shot up except for me and one other guy. And we were all crowded behind this tractor tire. Just, you felt like a victim. Like, I felt helpless. You know, I'm getting rounds poured all over me. And at a certain point, you just go, I'd rather run back into the front of this thing and get killed with all of them than be the lone survivor.

**Andrew Huberman** (0:53)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is DJ Shipley. DJ Shipley is a retired Navy SEAL who served for 17 years, much of that time as a Tier 1 operator, meaning part of an elite, highly selective special operation unit within the SEALs. In recent years, DJ has emerged as a top public educator on the topics of how to structure your days to maximize your mindset for sake of physical and mental health, as well as performance in work or school and to best support and build your closest relationships. As you'll soon learn from DJ, there are key points in your day when you can take specific physical steps, including but not limited to physical exercise to shift your mind away from rumination, distraction and frustration to a state of immense clarity, focus and drive. Through trial and error, DJ has figured out and he shares with us how that process is done and how you can do it too, right down to the details. What he describes goes way beyond a standard morning routine or evening routine, and most importantly is accessible to all of us. You also won't hear any cliches or fluff in today's discussion. DJ is very specific about what to do and when and how in order to become the best possible version of yourself. You'll often hear those words out there, how to become the best version of yourself or reach your potential. But what DJ does so beautifully is he explains exactly how to do that. And he shares his story of how he joined and moved through the SEAL teams and the victories, but of course also the immense challenges and losses that he and his teammates experienced. We also discuss addiction, PTSD and depression and new paths for overcoming those. In particular, a new medical treatment, Ibogaine followed by DMT and how that's being used to help veterans overcome addiction, PTSD and suicidality. I've paid close attention to that work over the last five years because the brain imaging aspect is being done by my colleague, Dr. Nolan Williams at Stanford. I should mention that the Ibogaine DMT process we discuss is not a recreational one. Rather, it's being done as part of clinical trials and dedicated research studies. DJ explains that process firsthand. And at the same time, I should mention that Ibogaine and DMT are still illegal in the United States. They are not FDA approved, so no one should explore their use outside of these clinical trials. However, the FDA is looking seriously at these compounds, and approval for them seems quite likely in the next 12 months or so. Today's discussion is one that anybody, male, female, young or old, can benefit from. DJ has immense knowledge. He has immense experience. And he has an incredible ability to take what he's learned and turn it into actionable steps so you can improve your mental health, physical health and performance and become the best possible version of yourself. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with DJ Shipley. DJ Shipley, welcome.

**DJ Shipley** (4:05)
Thanks so much for having me, man.

**Andrew Huberman** (4:07)
Let's talk about mental health, physical health and spiritual health, but not all at once. You talk a lot about and you post a lot about mental health, but I've noticed that a lot of that takes on a sort of a protocol-y approach where you use physical steps to approach mental health and vice versa. So what's your framework on this thing that we call mental health? I'm not asking you to solve the mental health crisis in one swoop, but when you think about your own mental health, the people close to you, people you've worked with, and the teams, how do you approach mental health as a concept and as an actionable thing?