How to Lose Fat & Gain Muscle With Nutrition | Alan Aragon

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Alan Aragon. Alan Aragon is one of the most influential and respected figures in the fields of fitness and nutrition. The reason for that is because of his strict reliance on evidence-based information, and because he's co-authored some of the most highly cited and respected studies and reviews on nutrition and fitness. His expertise covers nutrition and training for women and for men, and for anyone who's seeking better health, fat loss, muscle and strength gain, or all of the above. And in today's episode, we cover all of that and much more. Alan clarifies the myths and the facts around things like seed oils, whether or not it's better to do your workouts fasted for sake of fat burning, low calorie and artificial sweeteners, sugar, alcohol, collagen and more. Alan also explains how to determine your actual protein needs. Despite all the discussion nowadays about protein, there's still a lot of confusion about this actually. He covers the real science on meal timing, protein and carbohydrate intake relative to your training, how women's hormone cycles impact their training and nutrition needs, and eating and training for body composition changes for anyone. There is just so much advice and information online, but also in the peer-reviewed literature on nutrition and fitness nowadays, which makes it very challenging for anyone seeking to understand and implement what really matters toward their fitness and body composition goals. If ever there was a voice of practical reason who is grounded in the peer-reviewed data, but who is also willing to acknowledge individual differences and preferences when it comes to fitness and nutrition, it's Alan Aragon. And today he shares that information with us, and he also makes it clear and actionable as to what really works. Thanks to Alan, by the end of today's episode, you will be armed with the latest and best knowledge on nutrition and fitness that you can apply. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Alan Aragon. Alan Aragon, welcome.

**Alan Aragon** (2:19)
Andrew, it is awesome to be here. Like literally awesome. It's no exaggeration. This is, I'm super stoked, man. Thank you for having me on the show.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:28)
Yeah. Well, I've learned a ton from you through our online correspondents and we've met once before in person. Let's get down to some important topics that are very actionable because this is what I love so much about your work. It clarifies so much of the confusion that exists out there. I think this is really one of the signatures of your work is that it clarifies.
Let's start off with something that many people have heard, which is that we can only assimilate 30 grams of protein per meal. And the simple question is, what constitutes a meal? Like if I eat 30 grams of protein and an hour later I eat 30 grams of protein, did I just eat two meals? Can I assimilate 30 grams in each? And can I assimilate more than 30 grams of protein under certain circumstances? So what's the deal with this protein assimilation thing?

**Alan Aragon** (3:22)
Okay, well you elucidated one of the issues right in the question. It's like are we talking about isolated quickly digesting protein or are we talking about a slower digesting protein or are we talking about any one of those within the context of a mixed macronutrient meal with carbohydrate, fat, fiber? All of those conditions alter the behavior of what happens physiologically. And so the origin of the whole 25 grams of protein max is all you can use is the confusion of the two separate concepts. So there is digestion and utilization at the kind of entire body level where protein has various metabolic fates for various systems and just various homeostatic needs of the body. And then there is the specific phenomenon of the muscle anabolic response or muscle protein synthesis. So we have to separate, okay, digestion and absorption in general or muscle protein synthesis. So the 25-30 gram cutoff, it's usually listed like some people say 20, 30 That refers specifically to muscle protein synthesis where there seems to be a plateau at 25-ish, 30-ish grams. And we thought this all the way until, gosh, from the late 90s, early 2000s, all the way up till 2016-ish or so. 2016, when McNaughton and colleagues compared 20 grams of protein versus 40 grams of protein, but instead of doing what previous researchers did with the training bouts being very low volume, like 8-12 sets, a couple different leg exercises, leg extensions, leg presses, 8-12 sets total, and then you assess the muscle protein synthetic response to the protein dose, what McNaughton and colleagues did, they hit the subjects with a 24-ish set regimen full body.