How to Grow From Doing Hard Things | Michael Easter

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Michael Easter. Michael Easter is a professor at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, and a world-renowned writer. His recent work has focused on how modern conveniences undermine our mental and our physical health, and as importantly, the daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly steps we can all take to not just offset the damages of those conveniences, but to continue to grow and improve our ability to focus, to do meaningful and creative work, and to derive deeper connection with others. One of the reasons Michael Easter is on this podcast is that his book, The Comfort Crisis, changed my daily life. The Comfort Crisis made me realize that every activity available to us, easy or challenging, destructive or constructive, can and should be viewed through the lens of whether it spends our dopamine reserves or invest them in a worthwhile way. This is a key distinction that we don't often hear about, but it's one that can help you access much greater levels of focus and motivation to be able to avoid and get over addictive or compulsive behaviors. And it also brings about greater meaning and depth of connection to your relationships and leisure time. During today's discussion, Michael and I explore these ideas and their practical implementation, including how you can tailor them to your own life. He explains how our choices in the physical world and in the online world shape us over time and how to make better choices about both on a daily basis. He also provides the practical steps of how to get mentally stronger. We hear about getting mentally stronger a lot, but he explains exactly how to do that, as well as how to live with a pervasive sense of gratitude. I'm certain that everyone, young, old, male, female, maybe you're driven or maybe you're more laid back type of person, will benefit from and be changed by the conversation with Michael Easter. The information and tools he offers and shares are that good. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Michael Easter. Michael Easter, welcome.

**Michael Easter** (2:15)
Thanks for having me, man.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:17)
You've changed my life.

**Michael Easter** (2:18)
Really?

**Andrew Huberman** (2:19)
You have.

**Michael Easter** (2:20)
Tell me more.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:20)
You've changed my behavior on a daily basis. So, a ex-girlfriend of mine who lives in Colorado, and I were in a discussion about the best place to live and raise kids. And she grew up in the mountains of Colorado. And she had just listened to your book, The Comfort Crisis. And she was saying, I think this is the reason why people in her hometown are so mentally robust into their 70s, 80s, even 90s.
Her grandparents were really robust. I think they lived into their 90s or late 80s at least. And we talked about her childhood a bit around this. And she said that her mom actually used to take her and put her in a basket and put her into the river and just send her downriver to a friend's house. And I mean, this is the kind of stuff that nowadays, you're like, you know, parents lose their minds.

**Michael Easter** (3:13)
Like Moses.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:14)
Like exactly. And that she grew up in cold water in the morning.
And of course, skiing and doing all the things they do in Colorado. But she was absolutely convinced that the sort of bodily expectation of daily activity, meaning just a sort of level of energy and almost stress if she didn't get a ton of outdoor movement every day was determined by that early upbringing, of just being outdoors almost all the time and doing hard things and experiencing cold and things of that sort. So I read the book and started doing hard things on a regular basis, mostly rucking. But it has been a few years since I've had a really big adventure. And we'll talk about big adventures that include some actual danger. And I make it a point each week to write down one thing that I'm going to do that is truly uncomfortable. So, thank you for changing my life for the better. It's transformed my mental health and I was already feeling really good.