How to Find & Be a Great Romantic Partner | Lori Gottlieb

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Lori Gottlieb. Lori Gottlieb is a psychotherapist and bestselling author, and is considered one of the world's leading experts on relationships, how to find relationships, how to be in relationships effectively, how to leave relationships if necessary, how to grieve them after they're gone, and how to renew them. All from the perspective of looking inward at ourselves and the stories about ourselves and others that we tell ourselves that can lead us to what we want and what's best for us, or that lead us away from those things. During today's episode, we discuss how the feelings we experience when we're with certain people are the absolute best guide of how poorly or how well those people are suited for us as partners, and the ways in which we miss key signals, both good and bad in relationships, by not paying attention to how we feel. Lori explains how to better our communication skills, how to determine if somebody's critique of us is valid or not, that certainly is important for everybody, and how texting and technology has changed relationships, and how to navigate all of that by leaning into our own sense of agency, the things that we can control. And last but not least, Lori explains how we can all access more vitality and enjoyment of life, and how so many people don't allow themselves to do that, because the familiarity of their present circumstances overrides their willingness to move forward. This was a really eye-opening episode, and one that I'm certain will help you better understand yourself and what your needs really are, and how you can be happier in or out of a relationship. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, this episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Lori Gottlieb. Lori Gottlieb, welcome.

**Lori Gottlieb** (2:02)
Thank you. Great to be here.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:05)
What's the first thing you ask a patient when you're meeting them for the first time?

**Lori Gottlieb** (2:10)
Usually it's something like, tell me what's going on. Tell me why you're here. Tell me what made you decide to come in.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:18)
And are you listening both to the content of their words and their tone, their physicality?

**Lori Gottlieb** (2:24)
Everything. Yeah, yeah. I think it's so interesting because sometimes people will say, I'm here because of, and they'll talk about something very difficult, but they're smiling through it. You know, I think it's very nerve-racking to come in and see a therapist, and you don't know this person, and you're about to share some very personal information that maybe you haven't told anyone in this way. And so, you want to make somebody comfortable, you want to make sure that, you know, you feel like they are not being rushed to share something that they're not ready to share. So, it's just the process. I think it's a very human interaction. You know, therapy to me is not like expert and this other person, and then it feels very asymmetrical. Of course, we're using our training, and that's why they're coming to us, but I feel like it's very much a human-to-human interchange.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:17)
Do you think, because I've heard, but I don't know if it's true, do you think that some people tend to create a lot of internal and perhaps external narrative about what happened, who they are, how people are in the world, how they're not in the world, you know, a lot of words to their experience, either spoken or internally, versus people who maybe experience life a little bit differently. Once somebody said in a comment on Instagram, and I still think about this, they said, I don't think in words, I think in feels. And my first reaction was like, yeah, I'm from Northern California, people talk that way sometimes. I thought, that's interesting. Maybe there are a lot of people who, for whom language isn't the primary mode of understanding what's going on around them.

**Lori Gottlieb** (4:12)
I think that as humans, we try to make sense of our feelings through stories. That we tell ourself a story about why we're feeling a certain way. And sometimes we aren't that skilled, because nobody taught us this, to access our feelings. And that happens because kids are often talked out of their feelings. So when you're young, for example, and say you say to your parent, I'm really worried about this. And your parent will say, oh, don't worry about that. That's nothing to worry about. Or I'm really mad about this. You're so sensitive, right? Or because parents are really uncomfortable when their kids are feeling sad, because they feel like it's my responsibility to make sure they're not sad, which is not your responsibility as a parent. You're there to sit with your child and be present for them. So if your child says, I'm really sad that so-and-so sat with so-and-so at lunch today. And the parent will say, well, here's what you can do or that's terrible or right instead of like, oh, tell me more. And I think that as a parent or even as a partner, when your partner comes to you or your friend comes to you or a family member comes to you and tells you something, often what we do is we try to talk them out of the feeling that they're having or help them get rid of the feeling because we think it's a negative feeling. When feelings are all positive because they're like a compass, they tell us what direction to go in.