How to Expand Your Consciousness | Dr. Christof Koch

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Christof Koch. Dr. Christof Koch is a neuroscientist and investigator at the Allen Institute for Brain Science and a chief scientist at the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation. He is considered one of the great pioneers and luminaries of modern neuroscience. Christof's research has spanned how we perceive the world around us, how different states of mind arise and shape our experience of life, and most notably, consciousness. I joined the field of neuroscience way back in the 1990s, and even way back then, Christof's name and his work was considered seminal for our understanding of brain and human experience. And over the subsequent 30 years, he has continued to do incredible groundbreaking work. Today we discuss consciousness, what it is literally at the level of quantifiable brain mechanisms, and how understanding consciousness at that level can help you experience life more richly and allow you to place deeper meaning on everything from a typical morning to grief and loss to your greatest and most awe-inspiring moments. Christof also explains how our individual experiences and memories place us each into a unique, what he calls, perception box, which is what shapes your outlook on life and in many cases, your quality of life, including your mental and physical health. And he explains how you can change your perception box through what we call neuroplasticity, which is the modification of brain circuits. We also discuss what flow states psychedelics, such as DMT and other psychedelics, meditation, sleep and dreaming, tell you about how your mind works and the nature of consciousness. And we don't just discuss consciousness at the level of individuals, we discuss the collective consciousness of humankind. So if you're somebody that's interested in the brain and mind, what it means to be human, how to evolve and improve your mind, today's discussion will address all of that. Oh, and we also discuss dogs, cats, Jennifer Aniston, and the meaning of life. So get ready. This is a very special episode of the Huberman Lab podcast that I'm certain by time it finishes, will have you thinking differently about your life and dare I say, with a bit more optimism. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. Christof Koch. Dr. Christof Koch, welcome.

**Christof Koch** (2:34)
Thank you for having me, Andrew. It's been a pleasure. It's been more than a decade, 12 years since we last interacted.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:41)
Yeah, I've always enjoyed our interactions. And one of the reasons is that you're always into something super interesting, big, big questions and evolving fast all the time, all at once. So I think most people have heard the word consciousness. They perhaps have pondered consciousness, but at least to my mind, it's not a very well defined word. So when you talk about wanting to understand consciousness or about a being having consciousness or being in a moment of consciousness versus say a rock, which I'm presuming doesn't have consciousness, what are we talking about? And here we could be using biological language, psychological language or philosophical language. Please include all of it.

**Christof Koch** (3:31)
Much simpler. Do you hear me? Do you hear me?

**Andrew Huberman** (3:35)
Yes.

**Christof Koch** (3:35)
Do you see me?

**Andrew Huberman** (3:36)
Yes.

**Christof Koch** (3:37)
The fact that you hear, not that you respond to my sound by moving your hand, the fact that you see, not the fact that you can navigate around this room, but you actually have a picture in your head. The fact that you love, the fact that you hate, the fact that you dream, that you imagine, that you dread, those are all conscious experience. It's the stuff of life, literally. If I give you a billion dollars, okay, that even for you is probably a meaningful amount of money. It certainly is. Okay, but there's a slight, there is this thing that I'm going to remove all your conscious experiences. So you would still love and hate and drive cars and do everything else you do right now, but there would be no light.
There wouldn't be any Andrew. Would you take that, that wager? Well, the difference is between those two states is consciousness. So without it, you don't exist for yourself. In fact, tonight, you're going to go to bed, in particular, in the early night, early stages of the night, you go into non-rem, delta wave sleep, right? And you do not exist for yourself. If I wake you up, I said, Andrew, Andrew, something's happening. And I ask you, well, where did you come from? You say, I came from nowhere, which is different, of course, later stage in the night, right? When you have dreams, which is another conscious experience. But when you sleep, you do not exist for yourself. When you're on anesthesia, you do not exist for yourself. So you only exist for yourself because you're a conscious being. So in some sense, it's very simple to define.