How to Cultivate a Positive, Growth-Oriented Mindset | Dr. Jamil Zaki

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Jamil Zaki. Dr. Jamil Zaki is a professor of psychology at Stanford University. He is also the director of the Social Neuroscience Laboratory at Stanford. His laboratory focuses on key aspects of the human experience such as empathy and cynicism, which lie at the heart of our ability to learn and can be barriers to learning, such as the case with cynicism. Today you'll learn the optimal mindsets to adopt when trying to understand how to learn, conflict resolution, and how to navigate relationships of all kinds and in all contexts, including personal relationships and in the workplace. What sets Dr. Zaki's work apart from others is that he's able to take laboratory research and apply that to real-world scenarios to direct optimal strategies for things like how to set personal boundaries, how to learn information in uncertain and sometimes even uncomfortable environments, and then how to bring that to bear in terms of your relationship to yourself, your relationship to others, and how to collaborate with others in more effective ways. I want to be very clear that today's discussion, while focused on cynicism, trust, and empathy, is anything but squishy. In fact, it focuses on experimental data derived from real-world contexts. So it is both grounded in solid research and it is very practical, such that by the end of today's episode, you'll be armed with new knowledge about what cynicism is and is not, what empathy is and is not. This is very important because there's a lot of confusion about these words and what they mean. But I can assure you that by the end of today's discussion, you will have new frameworks and indeed new tools, protocols that you can use as strategies to better navigate situations and relationships of all kinds and indeed to learn better. I'd also like to mention that Dr. Zaki has authored a terrific new book entitled Hope for Cynics, The Surprising Science of Human Goodness. And I've read this book and it is spectacular. There's a link to the book in the show note captions. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Maui Nui. Maui Nui Venison is the most nutrient dense and delicious red meat available. 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In fact, I probably eat a Maui Nui Venison burger pretty much every day, and occasionally I'll swap that for a Maui Nui steak. And if you're traveling a lot or simply on the go, they have a very convenient Maui Nui Venison Jerky, which has 10 grams of quality protein per stick at just 55 calories. While Maui Nui offers the highest quality meat available, their supplies are limited. Responsible population management of the access deer on the island of Maui Nui means that they will not go beyond harvest capacity. Signing up for a membership is therefore the best way to ensure access to their high quality meat. If you'd like to try Maui Nui Venison, you can go to mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get 20% off your membership or first order. Again, that's mauinuivenison.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Joovv. Joovv makes medical grade red light therapy devices. Now, if there's one thing I've consistently emphasized on this podcast, it's the incredible impact that light can have on our biology. Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near-infrared light have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellar and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, even improvements in acne, reducing pain and inflammation, improving mitochondrial function, and even improving vision itself. What sets Joovv lights apart and why they're my preferred red light therapy devices is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning it uses specific wavelengths of red light and near-infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellar adaptations. Personally, I use the Joovv handheld light both at home and when I travel. It's only about the size of a sandwich, so it's super portable and convenient to use. I also have a Joovv whole body panel, and I use that about three or four times per week. If you'd like to try Joovv, you can go to Joovv, spelled joovv.com/huberman. Joovv is offering an exclusive discount to all Huberman Lab listeners with up to $400 off select Joovv products. Again, that's Joovv, joovv.com/huberman to get $400 off select Joovv products. Today's episode is also brought to us by Waking Up. Waking Up is a meditation app that offers hundreds of guided meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions and more. I started practicing meditation when I was about 15 years old, and it made a profound impact on my life. And by now there are thousands of quality peer-reviewed studies that emphasize how useful mindfulness meditation can be for improving our focus, managing stress and anxiety, improving our mood and much more. In recent years, I started using the Waking Up app for my meditations because I find it to be a terrific resource for allowing me to really be consistent with my meditation practice. Many people start a meditation practice and experience some benefits, but many people also have challenges keeping up with that practice. What I and so many other people love about the waking up app is that it has a lot of different meditations to choose from, and those meditations are of different durations. So it makes it very easy to keep up with your meditation practice, both from the perspective of novelty. You never get tired of those meditations. There's always something new to explore and to learn about yourself and about the effectiveness of meditation. And you can always fit meditation into your schedule, even if you only have two or three minutes per day in which to meditate. I also really like doing yoga nidra or what is sometimes called non-sleep, deep rest for about 10 or 20 minutes because it is a great way to restore mental and physical vigor without the tiredness that some people experience when they wake up from a conventional nap. If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, please go to wakingup.com/huberman, where you can access a free 30-day trial. Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free 30-day trial. And now for my discussion with Dr. Jamil Zaki, Dr. Jamil Zaki, welcome.