How Did Giglo Killer Rex Heuerman Control The People Who Loved Him?

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
This is Hidden Killers' half year in review. A look back at some of the most compelling cases of 2026 so far.
This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Drake.

**Tony Brueski** (0:16)
How does a person lose themselves so slowly that they don't really notice until they're gone? Asa Ellerup was married to Rex Heuermann for 27 years and says she never saw who prosecutors allege he really was. Eric Richins in the Kouri Richins story is being sentenced as we speak, saw it completely. He told his family his wife would be responsible if anything ever happened to him and still couldn't leave. Two people opposite experiences, same result, they stay. The psychology behind that is something every person in a relationship needs to understand because it doesn't start with a killer. It starts with a small compromise you barely notice. Shavaun Scott, psychotherapist and author is with us to help break it all down. Shavaun explored that exact erosion in her Substack Spotlight on psychology. And now she's here to break it down for us. Let's start with the version most people think they'll never fall for, the slow kind. The kind where nothing dramatic happens. No black eyes, no screaming, just years of small adjustments until one day you don't recognize yourself anymore. Let's walk through how that actually works because I think a lot of women and men are living right now in situations like this.
And they don't necessarily have a name for it. And they have, more importantly, a lot of excuses for it because they don't want to face the reality of what might actually be in front of them.

**Shavaun Scott** (1:39)
Yeah, it definitely happens incrementally, a little bit at a time. And then there's this kind of splitting where they tell themselves during the good times, well, this is who this person really is. And the bad times, I'll hear people say, well, he's just going through job stress right now. Well, he's been going through that job stress for 25 years. You know?
So let's be realistic. But they lose their perspective because the abusive partner is telling them they're wrong all the time. And they start to feel they can't trust their perspective. And so they shut down, they often develop anxiety problems, they develop depression. And so often, you know, anxiety and depression, it can be endogenous, it can come from inside. You know, some people just have genetics that make them more anxious and depressed.
But sometimes it's coming from the relationship. But that abusive partner will turn the tables on them and say, well, I wouldn't be so frustrated with you if you weren't so anxious and depressed all the time. So really the person that is causing the anxiety and depression is blaming the victim and saying, you're the reason I'm the way I am. And it gets very convoluted in their mind. They also can become very isolated because the abusive partner often tends to not want them to have outside reality testing with other people who might give feedback that this really isn't very good for you. And so they mistrust their own perceptions. They don't get reality from other people who might have a more realistic perspective on it. And it's insidious. It can go on till they really don't have much of a sense of self anymore.

**Tony Brueski** (3:36)
It's, I'm gonna say this real quick, Robin. Yeah, sure. Narcissists, whether they're not necessarily, in my opinion, saying they're implicitly, here's my goal for this relationship. It's just what the things that they do.

**Shavaun Scott** (3:48)
What they do.

**Tony Brueski** (3:49)
And it seems to be always inflict mental vertigo. That seems to be the goal with anybody that becomes one of their targets or their victims. Because with vertigo, I mean, it's a debilitating condition. You can overcome it. There's ways, there's medication, there's things.
But when you're in the throes of it, you don't want to leave your bed. You don't want to get up and go around. I mean, it's the same sort of thing with the coercively controlling narcissist or covert narcissist. Because they're inflicting that mental vertigo. And the only person who can help you get around and get out of bed is them.
It's that, that's really what's going on there. I'm sorry, Robin, go ahead.

**Robin Drake** (4:32)
No, it's all part of the same. I'm curious, Shavaun, so many aspects of this sound and look a lot like these really, really micro cults. That's an interesting one, micro cult. And do you see it like this as well, because you talk about isolation, and that's a huge part of grooming, is isolation.
But I think, I'm curious, are we seeing it in Rex Heuerman? And it's almost like Duggar-like, where they, it's not just the isolation, because it's, I think people have an easier time recognizing when they're isolated, but these people then also will cascade the isolation by saying, it's us against the world. We have the right view, they have the wrong view, and a good health, and our religion takes work, it takes work to be special. So they make them feel special at the same time as the abuse is going on, or are they doing this, so is that part of the isolation that they're doing?