Dr. Ellen Langer: Using Your Mind to Control Your Physical Health & Longevity

**Andrew Huberman** (0:00)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Ellen Langer. Dr. Ellen Langer is a professor of psychology at Harvard University, and one of the world's leading pioneers in the mind-body connection. More specifically, how our thoughts impact our health. Dr. Ellen Langer was one of the first people to systematically explore the mind-body connection with scientific rigor. Her laboratories made a large number of truly fascinating findings. For instance, today you'll learn about a study that Dr. Langer did in which she brought quite old people into her laboratory, or rather she designed a laboratory such that people lived in this laboratory, but the laboratory itself was designed to resemble the environment, everything from the types of furniture, the types of dishes, the types of music, et cetera, that those people had lived in 20 years prior. When those subjects lived in that laboratory for less than one week, the change in the environment and their interaction with that environment led them to have far more mobility, better cognitive function, and a large number of other markers of biological aging reversed, which is absolutely remarkable and speaks to the incredible power that the mind has over our biology. That's just one example of the sorts of experiments that Dr. Langer has done. Again, with a tremendous amount of scientific rigor. So today, Dr. Langer and I talk about how the acquisition of knowledge, just simply learning about certain biological mechanisms, as well as your mindset about various aspects of your health and well-being, can powerfully dictate your health and well-being. We talk about longevity. We talk about exercise and weight loss. We talk about infectious disease. In fact, we also talk about how mindset can impact cancer outcomes, or rather overcoming cancer. We discuss examples, mechanisms, and practical application of those mechanisms. By the end of today's episode, I assure you that Dr. Ellen Langer will change the way that you think about the mind-body connection, the way you think about your health. And I assure you, it's not all just about positive thinking. In fact, Dr. Ellen Langer gets us to think differently about scientific questions, our health, and just about everything else in the world. You'll soon see she has a quite unique way of thinking, not just about science and health, but also about life in general and what makes for a truly good life. Dr. Ellen Langer is a true luminary and pioneer in this area of mind-body health, and she's a fabulous teacher as well. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, this episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. Ellen Langer. Dr. Ellen Langer, welcome.

**Ellen Langer** (3:00)
Thank you, Andrew.

**Andrew Huberman** (3:01)
So great to have you here. There's so many topics that you've worked on and shed light on that impact our daily lives and our internal world and our external world and how they interact. I want to know your definition of mindfulness. And it could take on practical forms, theoretical forms.

**Ellen Langer** (3:21)
No, make it very simple. That when most people hear the word mindful, sadly, they think of meditation. Meditation is great, but it's not mindful. You meditate in order to result in post-meditative mindfulness, okay? So it's a practice. Mindfulness, as I study it, is a way of being. It's not a practice. It's the simple process of noticing. Now, you can get there in one of two ways. Bottom-up, actively notice three new things about the person you live with. Walk outside, notice three new things. Each time you do this, you see that you didn't know the thing you thought you knew as well as you thought you knew it. But you can also do it top-down. Top-down is recognize that everything is always changing. Everything looks different from different perspectives. Uncertainty is the rule. It's not the exception.
So when you know you don't know, then you naturally tune in. So one of the things, I've said this so many times, maybe this will be the last. One of the things we think we know best is, how much is one plus one, Andrew?

**Andrew Huberman** (4:27)
I'm gonna assume it's still two.

**Ellen Langer** (4:29)
Two, not always. If you add one watt of chewing gum to one watt of chewing gum, one plus one is one. You add one cloud to one cloud, one plus one is one.