Could Heuermann's Confession Get Thrown Out?

**SPEAKER_1** (0:02)
This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brueski and Robin Drake.

**Robin Drake** (0:08)
Well, Tony Brueski is still on his honeymoon, so you got Robin Drake and you're also going to have Todd with me today, our amazing producer. And so welcome to Hidden Killers Live. I am, as I said, Robin Drake. We're driving the bus for Tony while he's away on his honeymoon, and we're going to be covering a couple of big stories today and big twists that came out over the weekend in the last couple of days since we've been away.
We start off with what's going on now with the Rex Heuermann saga, and that is Allison Winter. And if you watch the Hulu doc, or Hulu, what was that on Todd? I don't think it was on Hulu.

**Todd** (0:38)
It was on one of the, yeah, yeah, it's on Tik-Tok.

**Robin Drake** (0:40)
Right, so we're going to be covering this one because if you watch that, and it was really compelling. Matter of fact, we did a deep dive with most of our guests on that one, including the great Siobhan Scott about the therapist and the work the therapist was doing with him. Well, it turns out the therapist is not quite licensed to do what she did.
So let's be talking about that and doing a deep dive. We're going to be, Eric might be joining us because normally Eric Faddis is our defense attorney and former prosecutor joins us on Thursdays. He's running a little bit late, not sure if he's going to make it or not. But in the meantime, since this is such an unusual case, we can do a deep dive on that one. And so let's see, where I left off here, Suffolk County Jail, she sat in sessions. This is, what's her face?

**Todd** (1:24)
Allison Winter.

**Robin Drake** (1:25)
Allison Winter, she sat in sessions, including around the time of his private confession to Asa in Victoria. And now she's facing 18 felonies, grand larcenies, schemed to defraud and unauthorized practice of a profession for allegedly posing as a licensed clinical social worker and billion insurance companies for more than $60,000 while treating one of the most notorious serial killers in America, as well as the entire family.
Eric Faddis is going to break this down legally. But we're going to do the best we can because we are not the legal beagles, but there's so much behavior at play here and we've covered this case so extensively. So with that, first thing I really wanted to cover was Allison Winter wasn't licensed to practice clinically, her social work independently in New York, yet she counseled Rex Heuermann week after week for nearly three years. How does someone like that, you think, without a license get that kind of access inside? Any ideas, Todd?

**Todd** (2:18)
Well, I mean, I'm sitting here thinking you're, you know, you're the behavior guy, right? And so my question to you kind of based on that is, if you are Allison Winter and you are in this position, there's a peacock documentary out there. You are in therapy sessions with a well-known possible serial killer at the time. He wasn't convicted or anything like that.
And you know, your license is not up to par. Why do you get so involved in it? Isn't this something that a normal person might back away from and say, I probably shouldn't be in this. I shouldn't be in the documentary on peacock. What kind of person is Allison Winter just from that perspective?

**Robin Drake** (3:01)
Yeah. And you hit a key word right in there, Todd. A normal person would back away from. Because the extreme exposure she put herself out there for personally and professionally, it was compelling. And when I first saw this yesterday, again, I didn't do a deep enough dive on her yet because I'm really interested. Any time something goes sideways with someone, where they're doing something a bit out of that normal, they give us a wobble in what we're expecting like she just did. First thing I'm doing is I'm looking at their lives, I'm looking at the people in their lives and asking myself that question, what inspired them to take this action? Because for some reason, she thought this was in her best interest to do.
God knows why, because the amount of exposure that she put herself out to personally and professionally was pretty profound. I don't know how you walk that back and even get licensed again because she's practicing on it. She's a complete fraud. Complete fraud is probably not entirely accurate, because as Siobhan said, she seemed to be giving some good counseling, again, it was edited for TV and whatnot. But she's trained in this, she's just not licensed in this. So I'm wondering what her knowledge level of where she was at was as well.