Avoiding, Treating & Curing Cancer With the Immune System | Dr. Alex Marson

**Dr. Alex Marson** (0:00)
We're living in this amazing moment of biology where we can put a gene that encodes something on the surface of T cells that will make them programmed to search and destroy for cancer cells. Now, this is largely known as CAR T cells, chimeric antigen receptor. This is a receptor that was designed in a lab, does not exist in nature. When those T cells get re-infused into a patient the way that you get like a blood transfusion, those CARs are directed to go against cancers.

**Andrew Huberman** (0:29)
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life.
I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Alex Marson. Dr. Alex Marson is a medical doctor and scientist at the University of California, San Francisco. He is developing new ways to reprogram the immune system to cure cancers. Today, we discuss how your immune system works, how autoimmunity works, and how gene editing and other new technologies can be successfully leveraged to defeat childhood and adult cancers. Dr. Marson is truly one of a kind in his understanding of the clinical aspects of cancer treatment, the science of the immune system, and as you'll soon hear, in explaining the things that genuinely increase your cancer risk, many of which are surprising and the actionable steps that we can all take to reduce our probability of getting cancer. In addition to the usual factors, smoking, UV light, and environmental toxins such as pesticides, we discuss the actual cancer risks that come from things like eating charred meats, airport scanners, and food additives, and how to gauge your individual level of risk. We also explore gene editing for reversing diseases, which until recently was science fiction, but now is a reality. By the end of today's episode, thanks to Dr. Marson, you'll have the most up-to-date understanding of the state-of-the-art science for cancer prevention and treatment, knowledge that is certain to impact you or a close friend or family member in your lifetime. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, today's episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. Alex Marson. Dr. Alex Marson, welcome.

**Dr. Alex Marson** (2:24)
Andrew.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:25)
This is the first time that we're going to have a serious discussion about the immune system, cancer and gene editing technologies on this podcast. So I'm delighted that you're here. It's also great to see you again.

**Dr. Alex Marson** (2:36)
Thank you for having me. Really, really good to see you.

**Andrew Huberman** (2:38)
It's been a while. Let's start off with the big picture. How are we doing?
How's biology looking? How's medicine looking? Are we on the fast track to much better things? Are we going to slog along for another 10 years before we have cures to the many concerns that people have about cancer, Alzheimer's and the rest? Or are you encouraged by what's happening right now?

**Dr. Alex Marson** (3:01)
I think maybe there's some, some, the general public doesn't quite know how excited biologists are about what's possible. And maybe we've over promised, maybe in the past we've said we're on the brink of curing disease and people haven't seen it, but something is materially different right now. And there is a convergence of so many different ways of understanding biology, but then not having that stop at understanding, but to actually intervene and at the root causes of disease. And over the course of this conversation, I imagine we're going to talk about DNA sequencing, understanding cells, but going all the way to rewriting specific DNA sequences inside of the cells of our immune system, doing this not one at a time, but testing every gene and understanding pieces of DNA throughout our entire genome to understand what controls our cells. And then being able to take that information and actually do something about it to boost our immune system to go after cancer, to balance it for inflammation and autoimmunity. And that doesn't just have to be sort of searching for a pill. All of a sudden, we can actually talk to our own cells and give them instructions in the language of DNA and the language of molecular biology. And in some instances, this is being done with CRISPR, but it's also being done with lipid nanoparticles and vaccines. And we're still inventing new ways of giving these instructions. But all of a sudden, medicine is programming the behavior of cells in a way that's much more directed than was ever conceivable before. There's really a step function in what's imaginable and achievable in medicine.