Anthropic President Daniela Amodei Talks the Future of Claude

**SPEAKER_2** (0:02)
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**Shirin Ghaffary** (0:07)
We were chatting about, not so long ago, when we first met and started covering Anthropic. But for those who aren't familiar, you and your brother Dario and a handful of other people left opening eye to start Anthropic back in 2021 Now you employ thousands of employees, many of them in a reporting chain, up to you, in your role as president.
I'm curious, what is the difference in the leadership style between you and Dario?

**Daniela Amodei** (0:39)
Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here today. Dario and I, I really think of how we split duties. Dario is this incredible technical visionary. I think years before AI was this amazing idea that people were excited about around the world, he had this really strong conviction that artificial intelligence is going to be a big deal. This is like early 2010s.
And I think Dario is constantly reminding the company about the scale, the ambition, sort of where the technology itself is going. I think of my role much more as actually running and managing the day-to-day of the organization. So I manage the executive team. We spend time making decisions about customers, about our products, about the research and how that applies to the people that are using artificial intelligence. And I like to think that the two of us are a great balance.
And I have to say, like, I don't know how one CEO just runs a company by themselves. It seems like it's actually much easier to do with two people, particularly when they know each other really well.

**Shirin Ghaffary** (1:45)
I remember in one of our conversations earlier, you telling me that you and Dario rarely fight. And I'm curious how you manage, what are some examples of places where maybe you have disagreed and have been able to settle it in a healthy way with regard to the business?

**Daniela Amodei** (2:02)
Well, as someone who also has a brother, I know you know. I think we've had several decades to practice fighting and getting, and still loving each other, right? So as early as like, why did you take my toy?
Can I have that back, please? I think that has served us well in being able to operate well together in Anthropic.
I think what I would say is that we do disagree sometimes, but I think how you disagree really matters, and I feel like there is always an incredible mutual respect between us. So if we look at the same situation and we see something different, I like to think that what our default is, is to be curious, right? So I usually view it as like, oh, this felt like an obvious call to me, like why do you see it that way? Because usually he'll have a piece of information that I don't have, or have a different perspective, and I would say about 80 to 90 percent of the time, what ends up happening is we meet in the middle. So we'll think like, oh, I think this is the right thing to do, you think this is the right thing to do. Actually, there's probably a third way to do this, that's the combination of what we both think, that's actually a little bit better. I think that's part of the strength of having both of us. The ability to practice looking at situations and decisions just from different points of view and perspective, and I think it helps us make better decisions.

**Shirin Ghaffary** (3:17)
So two years ago when you were sitting on the Bloomberg Tech stage with Dario, Anthropic was still very much the underdog in the competition against OpenAI and just in the race to AI generally. Now it's in a very different position, no longer the underdog. Claude is a runaway success, particularly among coders. Your company is projecting $47 billion in annualized run rate revenue, and the company has eclipsed OpenAI's valuation for the first time.
Do you feel like you're definitively the front runner right now, and how does that change your approach?

**Daniela Amodei** (3:51)
You know, something that I think both Dario and I really hammer at Anthropic is that is just completely the wrong way to think. I think our view has always been, you know, this is really about how do we show up every day for our customers? How do we stay humble and make sure that we're really focused on the mission, right? The whole reason we started Anthropic is we want to be able to build and develop this technology in a way that is ethical, that's responsible, that's fair.