You Might Also Like: On Purpose with Jay Shetty

**Ramani Durvasula** (0:00)
Not all families are good. Many families are harmful. Sometimes that person who goes no contact is the first person who says enough is enough.

**Jay Shetty** (0:09)
Is forgiveness always healthy?

**Ramani Durvasula** (0:11)
No.
Hell no. I have seen people heal brilliantly without forgiving.

**Jay Shetty** (0:18)
When do you know it's time to cut off a toxic family member?

**Ramani Durvasula** (0:21)
I don't know that there's a moment of knowing, but every single person will say, grief, grief, grief, grief, grief, regret, shame, guilt, and then peace.

**Jay Shetty** (0:32)
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is one of your favorites, someone that you always want back, someone that always gets millions and millions of downloads and views whenever she's on the show. It's my friend and incredible thought leader, Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a clinical psychologist and one of the most trusted voices in the world on narcissistic relationships, whose work has reached millions of people searching for clarity and validation. Right now, more people than ever are asking a painful question.
Should I go no contact with my family? Nearly one in four adults report being estranged from a family member. What used to be unthinkable is now a global conversation and often a deeply lonely one. But how do you know when distance is healthy and when it's something you'll regret? If you've ever felt guilt, grief or confusion about stepping back from someone you love, this conversation will change how you think about it.
Please welcome to On Purpose, Dr. Ramani.

**Ramani Durvasula** (1:37)
Thank you, Jay.

**Jay Shetty** (1:38)
It's always wonderful to have you back.

**Ramani Durvasula** (1:39)
It's lovely to see you.

**Jay Shetty** (1:40)
I learned so much from you. You make everything clear.

**Ramani Durvasula** (1:43)
Thank you.

**Jay Shetty** (1:44)
I leave these conversations feeling I have so much to share with people. You joined me on tour last year, which I was so grateful for. But really, this conversation has truly taken over culture in such an interesting way.

**Ramani Durvasula** (1:56)
It has.

**Jay Shetty** (1:57)
And I wanted to just start off, as I always do with you, because I think you do this so brilliantly, can you please define what no contact means?

**Ramani Durvasula** (2:05)
It's just what it sounds like. It's no more contact. It's no more digital contact. It's no more in-person contact. You're not taking that person's calls. You're not showing up to where they are. It's almost like the death of a relationship, even while the people are living.

**Jay Shetty** (2:18)
That's an interesting way of thinking about it. Because I think no contact, it feels like, okay, I'm not going to call them. I'm not going to talk. But when you think about what you just said, that carries so much more weight, that definition. I read in the National Survey from Cornell University's Family Estrangement and Reconciliation Project, they found that 27% of US adults reported being estranged from one or more family members. 27%, that's huge. So cutting off family used to be unthinkable. Now it feels like it's everywhere.
What changed? We're talking about a third of Americans.

**Ramani Durvasula** (2:54)
I think what's challenging is, is that this concept of no contact is really, it's heterogeneous, it's not just one thing, right? And because it's not one thing, that 27% number, it's made up of a really kind of mixed up pot of people. First of all, I would say that you're absolutely right, Jay. There was a time this would never happen. And I think there are started a lot of cultures and parts of the world where it's still unthinkable. You cannot do this. Listen, more people are talking about things that were once sort of deemed shameful, sort of cultural and societal control of, you can't do this. And people are saying, yes, I can. I think there's more information, there's more content, conversations like this. That said, I really have to say that this remains a huge shaming issue out there. That when we hear someone is estranged from a family member, most people's mind will go to what's wrong with you, what's wrong with you, what's wrong with your family. It's immediately a very pathologized kind of a take on it.
But the problem is that no contact happens for such different reasons. In some cases, no contact is happening literally because a person says, there is no safety here. I'm fully abandoning myself to remain in relationship with this person or even feeling like there's potential harm. Even if it's not literal harm, it's not that somebody is going to come and hit you, but this psychological sense of vigilance or that, here we go again.