Why we need friction in relationships with Dana Suskind

**Dana Suskind** (0:00)
The way we learn to be human, the way we learn to connect is exactly through the friction-filled human interaction that you get with good enough parenting. I was one of those good enough parents that had lots of missteps and ruptures, but that is exactly how we teach children how to survive and navigate a human world.

**Adam Grant** (0:25)
Hey, everyone. It's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Re Thinking, my podcast with Ted on the science of what makes us tick. I'm an organizational psychologist and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.
Dana Suskind is a pediatric cochlear implant surgeon, a researcher and professor at the University of Chicago, and a best-selling author. Her pioneering work on childhood development led to her first book, 30 Million Words, on how early exposure to language influences brain development.

**Dana Suskind** (0:58)
AI has evolved. We have not. We want to just connect wherever we can.

**Adam Grant** (1:04)
Dana continues her exploration of childhood development in her new book, Human Raised. It's a science-backed guide to parenting in the age of AI. Dana is an expert on early connection, and I can't think of a better voice to help us figure out how to not screw up our kids.
There's been a lot of discussion about AI companions romantically. I've heard less conversation about how AI might interfere with our parenting or might substitute for our parenting. But I have to tell you, as I started reading your book and I started thinking about, what are all the ways that AI raised kids could be disadvantaged or deprived? It did cross my mind that there were some upsides.
I think a good AI chatbot would never be an abusive parent. I think you could get unconditional love. You could have a parental figure who's always available, always responsive no matter what time of day is, what the issue is. Then I think about the evidence that people feel more cared about and empathized with and seen when they interact with that bot than a human, at least by text. I think maybe this isn't so bad. Tell me why I'm wrong.

**Dana Suskind** (2:26)
What you just described is exactly the seduction of these AI companions, the frictionless, openness, sycophantic, you're always right, you're always seen, and there's an obvious seduction of that.
So, yes, you can imagine why people are flocking to AI companions, but it is exactly how we will sort of de-skill ourselves from being able to connect to other humans. The stance that I take is that there is so much that we don't understand about how children learn those important soft skills, empathizing, critical thinking, curiosity, all those skills that we want them to have, and we may provide what we think is the perfect coach, but there's a lot that we don't know and sort of in the similar ways that social media at some level makes a whole lot of sense, right? You're being connected to all these people around the world. Why wouldn't you feel more connected? But it's because there's so much that we don't understand about that connection, that the active ingredients might not be there, and you end up being left not developing those skills. So I think science needs to be part of it. I mean, certainly AI is an incredible technology, but we need to be very thoughtful in how we go forward.

**Adam Grant** (3:47)
So talk to me about what it looks like to be human raised in an age of AI.

**Dana Suskind** (3:52)
Yeah. So what does it mean to be human raised? Human raised isn't a rejection or an embrace of tech. It's really understanding what do children need to develop fully as humans.
Fully from a cognitive standpoint, all those things that we've been optimizing forever, but also those important soft skills. How do we raise children so they can have critical thinking, be empathetic, connect, all of those skills that you're going to need to have in the age of AI.
Really, it's through human presence and human connection. You see, when you're born, human babies are born incredibly underdeveloped. They're like little helpless blobs, and that's why parenting is so incredibly hard. But that helplessness is actually the origins of our brilliance, because our babies are born too early. So in those early years, the brain is built, 85 percent of the physical brain is built, and it is literally built by human interaction, talking, nurturing, joint attention, physical touch. That is building that brain. And based on those early years, that predicts not just how people do in the workforce, how they do intellectually, how they relate to others. Those early years are critical for that.