Why Fable's Shutdown Is a Warning for Every AI Lab: Uneasy Money

**Kain Warwick** (0:00)
You can imagine in the Jared from Subway office, because in order to do this for years and years and years, you have to convince yourself some code is law nonsense of, it's fine that we're stealing from people all day long because the markets are efficient or whatever the hell you can. So you have created this justification around your entire operation to allow you to sleep at night, to say like this is actually a fine thing for us to be doing. And then something bad happens to you. And everyone's like, amazing.
And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not a bad guy. What are you talking about? This is unfair. I'm a good guy.
Hey everyone, I'm Kain Warwick and welcome to Uneasy Money because what happens on Chained never stays on Chained. Before we begin, here is a word from the sponsors that make this show possible.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:52)
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**Kain Warwick** (1:15)
Hey guys, I'm here with my co-host, Taylor Monahan, security expert and Luca Netz, CEO of Pudgy Penguins slash iGlue, Inc. Actually, before we get to this EF one, because this just reminded me, there's a new OCAP Games set of cards that's out. That's like Pudgy Penguins and Burbs mixed together, is that right?

**Luca Netz** (1:43)
Yeah. So available in 1800 Target. So if you're listening to this in United States, go to your local Target and go grab some.

**Kain Warwick** (1:52)
Yeah. I think I'm trying to scrounge up a bot from somewhere. I'll just send you some.

**Luca Netz** (1:57)
I'll send me your address. I got you.

**Kain Warwick** (1:59)
Now, first segment, Ethlabs breaks from the EF. What is Ethlabs, you're probably saying. So Ethlabs is a new non-profit R&D lab whose state of mission is to make Ethereum the settlement layer of the global economy and accelerate the institutional supercycle. Look, I really hope the supercycle was not put into their incorporation documents. I really shouldn't mention supercycle ever. I have good friend, Suzu, the guy who coined that. Not the best guy, not the best dude. And every time anyone ever says supercycle, like all the prices go down. And I mean, here we are today. So let's strike supercycle from the record, hopefully. Let's try and find a different term. So sort of the founders are a bunch of ex-EF people, Barnaby, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the anchor funders are Bitmine. And they all put in Ethl or cash into this thing.
That wasn't clear to me.
Some form of money.

**Taylor Monahan** (3:23)
Some form of money for sure.

**Kain Warwick** (3:26)
I hope they put ultrasound money into this thing. I would, if they didn't, that seems like a mistake. I guess though, the only downside in giving people eat to do something is then they sell it and then everyone hates them. So you're kind of stuck there. So anyway, they gave them some money in some form, maybe stables.
And they're starting off.
This is the only, like a little bit of a downer for me was they're starting off their research target the team is leading with is the so-called 15 minute finality problem. That seems like a dumb problem to start off with. I don't know. Like, I don't think anyone cares about that genuinely. Like what are we, what is, what's the benefit from a institutional super cycle perspective of this 15 minute finality problem? Hey, do you know?

**Taylor Monahan** (4:23)
I have no idea.

**Kain Warwick** (4:24)
You have no idea?

**Taylor Monahan** (4:26)
So this is my thing is like, and there's a lot of people who think, and they're not wrong to be clear, but like it's not the full story, right? A lot of people think that like Vitalik is the problem with the EF because Vitalik has his own personal goals and way of viewing the world. And if you want to do things that are different, then it's good luck or whatever. That's like a very consistent narrative out of the EF, especially with like the EF dissenters. However, that is not the full story. And so my biggest hesitation, I'm not against Ethlabs existing, but my biggest hesitation with it is it is a lot of EF people.
Like at the end of the day, it is. They're ex EF people now.
So you can say that they were unhappy or whatever, but like, in my opinion, the biggest problem with the EF is like they're not operating at scale and I'm not convinced that taking a whole bunch of people who have been at the EF.