Unabridged Interview: Garrett Graff

**Lee C. Camp** (0:02)
Hey, friends, Lee C. Camp here. You're listening to No Small Endeavor. This is our unabridged interview with historian, journalist, Garrett Graff. We're discussing season four of his podcast. His podcast is called The Long Shadow, and this new season is called Breaking the Internet. This is a fascinating conversation. It's one that I think if folks are not familiar with what this story entails, everybody ought to get informed ASAP. Garrett's a really brilliant young guy. He's already written like 10 major books in this podcast series, especially is really fascinating. So, Garrett Graff, here it is. Enjoy. Fascinating. If you love No Small Endeavor, I suspect you will not want to miss joining us in Nashville for our Thanksgiving Variety Show on November 23 This year, we'll be joined by Sharon McMahon, number one New York Times bestselling author and podcaster. Sharon is a long-time government and law educator who became known as America's government teacher during the 2020 election when she went viral for breaking down complex topics with a steadfast commitment to the facts. It'll be a night of thoughtful conversation, moving music and a room full of folks all in pursuit of No Small Endeavor. This year, it's at the beautiful Skirmerhorn Symphony Center here in Nashville. We'll be joined by the Choir Room, Grammy Award-winning artist Allison Russel, and a full band for an amazing night you will not want to miss. Mark your calendars for November 23 and don't wait. Go get your tickets now at the link in the show notes or at nosmallendeavor.com.

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That's Boll and Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com/nse, to save 20% and unlock free shipping. Exclusions apply. Garrett Graff is a best-selling historian, former Politico magazine editor, longtime Wired contributor, and host of the Edward R. Murrow award-winning podcast Long Shadow. In season four, Breaking the Internet, he traces three decades in which the Internet moved from civic promise to existential crisis. Welcome, Garrett.

**Garrett Graff** (4:36)
Thanks so much for having me.

**Lee C. Camp** (4:37)
Very pleased to have you. Looking forward to the conversation today. You say in your bio on your website, or it says in your bio on your website, throughout his career and work, Graff remains committed to one guiding idea, that understanding history is not a luxury, it's a civic responsibility. And so let me ask to start, why is understanding the history of the Internet a civic responsibility, you think?

**Garrett Graff** (5:07)
It's a great question. And I think it has a lot to do with why we chose the Internet and the rise and fall of social media as the topic for this season. Which is, every year on Long Shadow, we try to pick a big public policy issue and try to explain why America is the way that it is. And I think what we try to do is look back over the last 40 or 50 years and use history to tell that story of today. And the way that our country is, the way that our culture is, the way that our government is, as Kamala Harris might say, is not because we just fell out of a coconut tree. It is because of decisions made by specific people at specific moments in our past.