Trump-Xi Summit, Benioff: "Not My First SaaSpocalypse," OpenAI vs Apple, Multi-Sensory AI, El Niño

**Jason** (0:00)
All right, everybody, welcome back to the number one podcast in the world, the All-In Podcast, episode 273 It's a huge week. Sacks is out. So we got to get Marc Benioff, CEO of Salesforce.

**Marc Benioff** (0:11)
I'm the only one left here. You're the only one left. That's how I made it on.

**David Friedberg** (0:15)
No software CEOs, right? To China?

**Marc Benioff** (0:17)
There's no software CEOs in China.

**Jason** (0:20)
Interesting. But did you get the invite? What's your status with this administration? Because you were obviously very famous for being a Democrat on the left.

**Marc Benioff** (0:30)
I'm not a Democrat on the left. I never have been.

**SPEAKER_4** (0:33)
Jason, what are you talking about?

**Jason** (0:35)
You donated to all these folks, and now you're in Trump's camp?

**Marc Benioff** (0:38)
What is it?
Listen, the number one thing is, hey, I'm here to support the country. That's what I do.

**Jason** (0:46)
Okay.

**Marc Benioff** (0:46)
Yeah.

**Jason** (0:47)
So you're right in the middle. You have an allegiance to America.

**Marc Benioff** (0:51)
I hope so.

**Jason** (0:52)
Yeah.

**Marc Benioff** (0:52)
I'm not a Democrat or a Republican.

**Jason** (0:54)
You're an independent like me.

**Marc Benioff** (0:55)
I am an American.

**Jason** (0:56)
Okay. I like it.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (0:57)
Benioff got the invite to the two hottest tickets. He got the invite to Windsor Castle in Tales. Then he got the invite when Prince Charles came here too, I saw. He was in Tales then too.

**Marc Benioff** (1:07)
Also, we were at that Saudi dinner too. Weren't you there, Chamath?

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (1:10)
I did not go to that one.

**Marc Benioff** (1:11)
All right.

**Jason** (1:12)
Well, we have a big docket here. The Trump-Shi summit has begun. That is the number one story right now after a two-month delay because of the war in Iran. This is the first visit to China since 2017
Seventh face-to-face meeting for Trump and President Shi. There are 12 hours, 15 hours ahead of us today. Thursday was officially day one. Here's what happened. China agreed that the Strait of Hormuz should remain open with no military commitment and that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon. So we're in sync on that. On Taiwan, this is a little spicy. Xi warned that, quote, if handled poorly, the two countries will collide or even clash, putting the entire US-China relationship in an extremely dangerous situation. Polymarket says Taiwan is safe for 2026, only 6% chance China invades this year.
On 23 million volume, which is a lot of volume, 17% chance, roughly triple, that something happens by the end of 2027 There's been a lot of debate. Some people say it will happen after Trump is out of office. Some people think it's going to happen while he's in office on trade. She committed to buy more soybeans, US oil, LNG, and 200 Boeing jets. She said the talks laid out a vision for constructive, strategic, and stable ties.
Trump was effusive in his praise for his friendship, giving the disclaimer that people don't like it when he praises she. Let's stop here and have a bit of a discussion. Friedberg, you have been a bit obsessed with this relationship and the bipolar nature of it. What are your thoughts here and what is the goal for Trump? What is winning for Trump coming out of this? What is winning for she?

**David Friedberg** (3:11)
I mean, she made comments in his opening remarks that it would be ideal if the United States and China could avoid the Thucydides trap, which as you'll recall, we talked about with Graham Allison and we've talked about several times over the last few years that as a rising power meets a declining power, there's always some moment where you end up in this state of conflict. The question is, can the US and China avoid conflict and find a path to cooperation, which has happened a few times in history when we found ourselves in this moment, but doesn't often happen. And I think the way to kind of think about the opportunity is if you're in a resource expansive world where you're increasing productivity and increasing production globally at an accelerating pace, perhaps there's less of a reason to have conflict. Perhaps there's a way that both societies, both countries can increase the quality of life for their people without taking it away from the other side. And in a world where you're more resource constrained or resource static, that becomes less possible. You have to fight and grab land and grab territory and grab resources from the other side.
And it seems like in this moment when we are seeing these extraordinary technology shifts unlocked by AI and automation and biotech, and all of these kind of moments of what could be true abundance ahead of us. It seems like the perfect moment to say, hey, maybe the world can be more multipolar, doesn't need to be unipolar, doesn't need to be bipolar, but everyone can participate in the expansion of the pie.