Time, productivity, and purpose: insights from Four Thousand Weeks | Oliver Burkeman

**Peter Attia** (0:11)
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My guest this week is Oliver Burkeman. Oliver is a journalist and author of three books, including the New York Times bestseller, Four Thousand Weeks, Time Management for Mortals. If you've listened to this podcast, you've most likely heard me talk about this book, as it's one of the four books that I consistently buy in bulk and give out to friends. The other three being Stillness is the Key by Ryan Holiday, From Strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks, and Die with Zero by Bill Perkins. I've been fortunate enough to have Ryan, Arthur, and Bill on the podcast to speak about their books, and so I'm really excited to round that out by having Oliver on as well. In this episode, we focus our conversation around Oliver's book, Four Thousand Weeks, and this idea that we want to try to master time, and whether or not that's an illusion or not. We speak about the evolution of how people began to keep time and why that mattered, if productivity is a distraction or a trap that can never be attained, and why it always feels like we're just about to master our time, but then we never quite get there. We speak about the various techniques people try to employ to control their time better, and the role of productivity tools. We talk about our desire to control the future, but how we only have a finite amount of time, and those two things seem in stark contrast. Lastly, we talk about how all of this relates to the idea of sense of purpose.
Of the four books that I often gift to people, with this being one of them, in many ways, this is the one that's the hardest for me to wrap my head around, and it's the one that I've read the most of each of them. Actually, at the conclusion of my discussion with Oliver, I think it finally hit me why I struggle so much to understand this concept. I won't let the cat out of the bag on what that is, but I sort of have an epiphany at the end of this podcast where I explain to Oliver where my lack of comfort comes with this subject matter. So I hope you find this enjoyable. I hope this resonates with those of you who share much of the struggle I share, which is this desire to be the masters of our time, the desire to be productive, and why letting go of some of this can probably lead to a much more fulfilling life. So without further delay, please enjoy my conversation with Oliver Burkeman.
Oliver, thank you so much for making time to speak in your evening. I've been looking forward to this for quite a while, as I was saying earlier when we spoke.
Your book is one of these four books that kind of fits into, I don't know, call it like books about the quality of one's life that have more to do with the way you live than some of the more physiological and biochemical things that I tend to think of commonly. In addition to your book, people have not only heard me talk about these books, but interview the authors, Ryan Holliday with respect to his book Stillness is the Key, Bill Perkins with Die with Zero, and Arthur Brooks from Strength to Strength. So to be able to sit here and speak with you today is really exciting because it sort of puts a bow on these four books. And it's a book I've enjoyed several times now, and I still am not convinced I fully understand it. So I'm really looking forward to speaking.

**Oliver Burkeman** (4:11)
Oh, thank you. I'm really, really happy to be here. I'm looking forward to getting into it. Absolutely.