The science of the cold plunge with Chris Ballard

**Chris Ballard** (0:00)
This was in February in Vermont, and they had taken the frozen surface of Lake Memphremagog, this giant glacial lake up there.
And every winter, they carve out a swimming pool with chainsaws out of this lake, and they hold a swimming race. And that experience was so cold, you can't necessarily discern between heat and cold. It could feel like fire.

**Adam Grant** (0:28)
Hey, everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to ReThinking, my podcast with Ted on the science of what makes us tick. I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.
Chris Ballard is a journalist and the author of The Plunge, a fascinating book about cold water immersion. As part of his reporting on the subject, Chris got into ice swimming himself. That Vermont swim in the glacial lake he described, the water was 33 degrees Fahrenheit that day.

**Chris Ballard** (1:01)
You're literally reacting minute to minute. The first minute for your body in the water is different than the second minute, which is different than the fifth, which is different than the tenth.
It had a far more impactful effect on me than I expected.

**Adam Grant** (1:13)
In this conversation, Chris does some myth busting about the health benefits of cold water. We also talk about the broader lessons he's learned about the psychology of discomfort and endurance, and the art of taking risks and embracing challenges.
Okay, so the place I want to begin is, I am no stranger to uncomfortable experiences. I seek them out for a living. It's almost a personal hobby. It's how I grow.
But I hate the cold. I don't know if there's a sensation that bothers me more than cold. To me, cold is pain.
Can you change my mind?

**Chris Ballard** (1:50)
In your case, I probably wouldn't try to.

**Adam Grant** (1:52)
Really?

**Chris Ballard** (1:52)
This was one of the things I found interesting about reporting and writing this book. Was there's people who find this, like trying a jalapeno pepper or whatever it might be, right? They find it something they might want to try.
And afterwards, they're like, I'm sort of glad they did that. And there's people where the dread and apprehension of the experience itself overwhelms any positive reaction you get on the back end. And so, just for recovery, which is one of the things people use it for, NBA Trainers told me, look, there's a lot of players, Steph Curry on The Warriors, Draymond Green on The Warriors, who find this helpful, and they will look forward to it. And that's the youth stress, obviously. And then there are players, in this case, like Andrew Wiggins and Kevan Looney, who just fear it so much that any positive benefit they get on the back end is outweighed by the negative emotional stress on the front end. So maybe this just isn't a thing for you.

**Adam Grant** (2:46)
Well, I don't know if I'm quite ready to land there yet, because you make a persuasive case that we should all be embracing the cold a little bit more than we might instinctively be inclined to. But at minimum, I actually don't struggle with the fear part. It's just the sensation of it that I can't stand. So I think about in my springboard diving days, the early morning practices where the pool wasn't heated or we were training outdoors and we'd have to just do a first dive cold literally and hit the water and it's 55 or 60 degrees. And I would rather touch a hot stove. I would rather be punched in the face.
Can you help me understand why that is? And what is different about people who seem to like the cold?

**Chris Ballard** (3:29)
So one of the thermal physiologists I spoke to, he said essentially we're divided into what he called warmies and coldies. And if you like physically shake someone's hand, you will often feel the difference. Someone might have a cold hand usually versus someone who's got a very warm handshake. This is a genetic component.
And this also affects how we deal with cold. Some people like to have the heat on, they like to keep it quite warm in their house, and other people are fine going outside in winter wearing shorts. So there's definitely a genetic component to it.
There's also a learned element. And this is, for me, I came into this from the outside. I was not a cold person. I literally own a hot tub. This was not something that would have naturally been drawn to. And so there was a lot of, this is terrible, and your body acclimates so quickly, usually within about a week of cold exposure, you get through the part of it that is unpleasant and you get to the rewards a lot quicker. So there is a learned element to it.