The protein debate: optimal intake, limitations of the RDA, whether high-protein intake is harmful, and how to think about processed foods | David Allison, Ph.D.

**Peter Attia** (0:11)
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My guest this week is David Allison. David, returning for his third conversation on The Drive, is a world-renowned scientist and award-winning scientific writer who has been at the forefront of obesity research for the last 20 years and is currently the director of the Children's Nutrition Research Center at Baylor College of Medicine. I wanted to have David on because protein has become one of the most contentious and confusing topics in nutrition today. What was once a fairly straightforward subject has now turned into a debate full of conflicting claims, dogma, unnecessary controversy, and a whole lot of name-calling. David brings both a deep understanding of the science and a clear-eyed perspective on how to separate evidence from opinion. This is part one of a two-part deep dive on protein, and next week I'll be joined by Rhonda Patrick for part two, after which we'll put this protein discussion to rest once and for all. In this episode, we discuss the historical cycle of demonizing macronutrients and why protein has recently become the focus, the origins and limitations for the RDA for protein, and what the evidence suggests about optimal intake for health, longevity, and performance. Conflicts of interest in nutrition science and why transparency around data, methods, and logic matter much more than funding sources. The challenges of conducting high-quality nutrition studies, including the debate over crossover designs, the limits of epidemiology, and the underfunding of rigorous trials compared to pharmaceutical trials. What the evidence really says about higher protein intake, muscle protein synthesis, and whether concerns about harm are supported by actual data. How to think about processed and ultra-processed foods, including definitions, heuristics, and the question of whether they're inherently harmful or simply a convenient villain. And finally, the difficulty of tackling obesity through public health, the limits of current approaches, and whether future solutions may rely more on drugs, like GLP-1 agonists or broader societal changes. So without further delay, please enjoy my conversation with David Allison.

**David Allison** (3:20)
Hey, David.

**Peter Attia** (3:20)
Thanks for coming back. This was probably the shortest trip you've made here, right? You got a new home?

**David Allison** (3:25)
Yeah. I got a great new gig at the Children's Nutrition Research Center in Houston. Texas and Baylor College of Medicine and Texas Children's Hospital. I'm having a great time. So is there just a nice easy car ride over here?

**Peter Attia** (3:36)
Very well. Well, we're going to actually start by talking about something that, believe it or not, I don't want to talk about because I'm kind of sick and tired of talking about it. And I'm going to apologize in advance to all the listeners, because if they've been listening at all, they're probably sick and tired of hearing about this. But unfortunately, this is a topic that has gone from being what I would consider pretty straightforward to somewhat contentious. And I'm going to do my best to refrain from speculating on the reasons why it's become contentious, although I have many views on that, and many views on the people who choose to make it contentious, which I'll also refrain from. But let's just try to dive into the arguments around the macronutrient that is more in the crosshairs than any other today, which is protein. And that's kind of interesting when you consider the arc of your career. It was certainly easy to understand how people demonized fat, and then they demonized carbs. And here we are today, come in full circle, we're demonizing protein. Where do you place that in the arc of the historical lens of nutrition?

**David Allison** (4:43)
It shows many things, but at some level, it's almost perfectly predictable, which is we all eat, we eat every day. Eating is part of our sustenance, but it's part of culture, family, certainly part of economics.