The Calories Expert: "Health Experts Are Wrong About Calories!" "The Surprising Benefits Of Diet Coke!" & "The Link Between Obesity & Past Abuse!"

**Layne Norton** (0:11)
Oh, I did not think I would cry on this podcast so much.

**Steven Bartlett** (0:16)
Layne Norton.

**SPEAKER_3** (0:17)
Scientist, record-setting bodybuilder, and is one of the most respected voices in the health and nutrition space. Who debunks all the different fitness and nutrition myths out there.

**Steven Bartlett** (0:27)
Let's go to the technical stuff.

**Layne Norton** (0:28)
Oh yeah, let's do that.

**Steven Bartlett** (0:29)
Calories in, calories out.

**Layne Norton** (0:31)
So, the first point of confusion. A lot of people may think they're in a calorie deficit, but they're not because, one, people don't really understand portion sizes. If you've never had the experience of like weighing out your food, you will be shocked. And the other thing is, Artificial sweeteners.

**Steven Bartlett** (0:46)
I've wondered for a while whether diet Coke is healthy or not.

**Layne Norton** (0:48)
If we look at the randomized control trials, they saw six kilograms of weight loss just from switching people from regular soda to diet soda. Now, when they compare it versus water, this is gonna be the most commented thing about in this entire interview, I'm sure.

**Steven Bartlett** (1:01)
They found that, What are the big misconceptions about intermittent fasting?

**Layne Norton** (1:04)
Is it okay if I get deep into the weeds on this one?

**Steven Bartlett** (1:06)
Go ahead.

**Layne Norton** (1:07)
In studies, people in the intermittent fasting groups tend to lose more weight, but it's not because of anything magic about intermittent fasting. It's because...

**Steven Bartlett** (1:15)
What's your thoughts on the Zenpec?

**Layne Norton** (1:16)
Overall, I think it's a net positive, and here's why.

**Steven Bartlett** (1:18)
When it comes to weight loss, people are googling how to lose belly fat.

**Layne Norton** (1:21)
Practically, it's kind of irrelevant because...

**Steven Bartlett** (1:24)
And then, is sugar addictive?

**Layne Norton** (1:26)
This one's gonna get me in trouble too. So...

**Steven Bartlett** (1:37)
Layne, who are you and what is the mission you're on?

**Layne Norton** (1:42)
I'm trying to make fitness information more accessible, fitness more accessible to everyone, and trying to act as a bridge between academic research and your average person, because so much gets lost in translation, because social media, the news, it is a fire hose of information, a lot of which is misinformation or you only get part of the story. And so I have noticed people are so frustrated because they feel like they understand what it is to eat healthy, and then a new documentary comes out, a new podcast comes out, a new article comes out and says, oh, nope, you're doing whatever it is you're doing, it's wrong and here's why. And I just want to help clear up some of that confusion. And help people understand the big stuff that really matters versus not getting lost in the weeds of the stuff that just doesn't matter that much.

**Steven Bartlett** (2:42)
And when you say fitness, how do you define that? Because you then talked about diet and food. So what is the sort of bucket that you put yourself in? What are the categories that you really focus on?

**Layne Norton** (2:53)
Great question. But I would say that my wheelhouse is nutrition. So I did a PhD in nutritional sciences. And I also feel pretty equipped to interpret exercise information as well.

**Steven Bartlett** (3:10)
So that's your academic sort of background. What is your lived experience? What experiences have you had as a coach to people, as a trainer in your own personal life, that have added to that academic information that you have?

**Layne Norton** (3:23)
Great question. So I'll try to give the abridged version of this. I got bullied a lot growing up as a really skinny kid, hyperactive, weird, you know. And so when you're young, what makes you stand out is actually not such a good thing. And I got bullied a lot. And I started lifting weights to, I thought if I got bigger muscles, you know, girls would pay attention to me and I'd stop getting bullied.
It didn't work for either of those two things. But I did gain more confidence, not because I built bigger muscles, but because the process of lifting and getting through plateaus and moving through setbacks and all those sorts of things, that's what built confidence. And I started lifting when I was 15 And when I got to college, I changed my major because I decided I was gonna do my first bodybuilding show. I did it. I won the team division and I was hooked. I was like, this is the thing I want to do. But back in, you know, this is 2001 I was 19 I'm 42 now. The avenues to make money in fitness were basically be a personal trainer, open a gym, start a supplement company, try to be Mr. Olympia. And I didn't know how feasible any of those were. So I started looking at a PhD, literally for no other reason. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, but I figured if I delay the real world by four to eight, four to six years, maybe I'll have it figured out by then. But in that meantime, I had started posting on different bodybuilding message boards. And so I would get a bunch of emails about my articles and people asking me questions. And I was like basically doing full on diets and nutrition for people for free because I just liked it. And then when I got to grad school, I was like, man, I, you know, this is a lot of my time now. Maybe if I just like charge people a little something, I can do this instead of a teaching assistantship, make a little bit of money, you know, didn't really think much of it. And so I took my first online client back in 2005 And within three years, I was making a full time income from it with no advertising, just word of mouth. And then in my fourth year, I think was the first year I ever made like six figures from it. I remember thinking, what is happening?