The C-suite is messier than you think, with Maryam Banikarim

**SPEAKER_1** (0:01)
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**Maryam Banikarim** (0:54)
I remember when I took the job at NBC Universal, and it was my dream job, right? Like, cheers, friends. That was my network. I show up and the HR person says to me, you know that these are the mean kids in school, like the ones who won't let you sit at the cafeteria table. And I remember saying to her like, maybe you should have said that to me before I signed my contract. And then I had my group meeting with my team, and somebody said to me, we fired all these people and hired you. And then a person said, well, you have the worst job outside of the janitor.

**Bob Safian** (1:37)
That's Maryam Banikarim, former CMO of Univision, Gannett and Hyatt, and host of the podcast, The Messy Parts. Today, we focus on career disruption, which is escalating across the economy. Maryam's stories and advice are illuminating, from navigating the politics of the C-suite, to embracing joy and betting on yourself. She grew up in Iran, and so shares her personal insight into the current Middle East conflict. Looking for hope amid the chaos, Maryam is funny, unpredictable, and inspirational in her commitment to the power of human connection and what we can all achieve. So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.
I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Maryam Banikarim, host of the terrific podcast, The Messy Parts, founder of the new community, The Interval, which I'm eager to hear more about. Also founder of NYC Next and The Longest Table, former chief marketing officer from Univision to Gannett to Hyatt and a long time friend, Maryam. This is going to be fun.

**Maryam Banikarim** (2:46)
I'm excited, Bob. Let's go.

**Bob Safian** (2:48)
Let's start with the messy parts. Because first of all, I love that word messy. Can you describe what the messy parts is and what you mean by messy?

**Maryam Banikarim** (2:57)
The show is about interviewing successful people about the things that go wrong. I think that in a world like we live in today, we see the highlights real, whether it's on Instagram or LinkedIn or any place else. It looks really easy to climb the ladder or become a founder and have a unicorn company. But the truth is, it's never easy. Everybody has messy parts. Those moments stay with you and you figure out how to pick yourself back up. They're never easy, but actually, that's where the growth is.

**Bob Safian** (3:26)
I love the word messy because I feel like creativity is messy, growth is messy. We have plans, but life is really what happens when your plan didn't work out. Have you always been drawn to messy?

**Maryam Banikarim** (3:39)
Well, I think I never knew anything but messy. I mean, I'm a kid who grew up in a revolution. My mom and dad went to college in Boston and left me behind with my grandmother in Iran when I was three, which most people think is really traumatic, but what else did I know? I had a father who drowned windsurfing when I was a sophomore in college. I mean, I only know messy, but what I also learned as a result, how to pick myself back up pretty quickly. I think the sooner you learn that, the easier it gets. Not that we want people to have complicated journeys, but I do think you develop this muscle memory that while it may be hard, you learn that it's going to be okay.

**Bob Safian** (4:21)
Sometimes the mess is the opportunity too, right? It's finding the opportunity in the mess.

**Maryam Banikarim** (4:29)
A hundred percent. Bloomberg talks about having started Bloomberg as a result of being fired, right? When people step away or pause, whether by choice or by somebody else's choice, what ends up happening is that you have to decompress and deal and find a pathway. I had a job that I took at Amarade Pierce Lint House. It's not even on my resume. I took that job and a week in, I knew, oh, things were not good here. And, you know, that was terrifying. But if I hadn't walked away from that job, I wouldn't have had a pivot in that moment that really became transformative for my career after that. It's easy to see that in retrospect, but when it was happening and I was like, oh, my effing God, yeah, that didn't feel so good.