Sunday Pick: Pride 2025 with Carol Leifer, Sonya Passi, Paul Tazewell, Leisha Hailey, and Kate Moennig | from Design Matters

**Elise Hu** (0:04)
Happy Sunday, Elise Hu here. Today, we're bringing you a Sunday Pick, where we share an episode of another podcast from TED, handpicked by us for you.
June is Pride Month in many states and countries around the world, in honor of the infamous Stonewall Riots in New York City, that so many attribute to the start of the modern LGBTQ rights movement, which includes conversations host Debbie Millman has had with the most accomplished LGBTQ plus guests, Carol Leifer, Paul Tazewell, Sonya Passi, Leisha Hailey and Kate Moennig. They talk about the journeys that led them to fulfilling professional lives and the influences that shaped who they are today. You can find episodes of Design Matters wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about all of TED's podcasts at podcasts.ted.com.

**Sonya Passi** (0:57)
In that moment, it crystallized for me that this was my life's work.

**Paul Tazewell** (1:02)
All of those things, I think, were additive to create what I do now.

**Debbie Millman** (1:12)
From the TED Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Millman.
On Design Matters, Debbie talks with some of the most creative people in the world about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about and working on. On this episode, in celebration of Gay Pride Month, we're going to hear excerpts from some of the interviews Debbie has done over the past year.

**Carol Leifer** (1:36)
There were comedy albums playing in my house all the time.

**Kate Moennig** (1:40)
It always fascinated me and I thought that looks like fun to do.

**Debbie Millman** (1:49)
I started this podcast 20 years ago. 20 years ago, George W. Bush was president and had endorsed a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. The majority of states had constitutional amendments or laws defining marriage as between a man and a woman. Don't ask, don't tell was official military policy. Culturally though, things were starting to shift. 20 years ago, Will and Grace was a popular TV show and Brokeback Mountain was an Academy Award-winning film. 20 years ago, The L Word was becoming a huge success on Showtime.
Now, 20 years later, to be gay in America has been normalized to an extent that a lot of people feel they don't have to dramatically come out to their friends and family anymore. They're just gay, no big deal.
Yet, we're now in a political moment wherein LGBTQ plus rights are under attack, particularly trans rights, which makes Pride Month, June, especially important this year to demonstrate that we're here, we're not going anywhere, we're not going back, and we're going to live our lives the way we want to.
So to celebrate Pride Month, I want to play a few excerpts from interviews I've done in the past year. I'm always interested in how all my guests have come to terms with their identities, and especially my LGBTQ plus guests. But that's not really what we talked about in these interviews. These were conversations with very accomplished people who happened to be gay, about how they became who they are professionally. What were the influences shaping the choices that led them into lives doing exactly what they wanted to be doing? First up, Sonya Passi. She's a veteran activist who has spent much of her life fighting gender-based violence. She's the founder and CEO of the national organization Free From. You mentioned you were raised in Manchester, England. I believe you were also born there. Aside from your fascination with paper products, what kind of little girl were you?

**Sonya Passi** (4:07)
I was always very confident. The stories I've heard from when I was young are that I used to stare intensely for long periods of time at all of my dad's friends.
These older men would get very nervous by my stare, and my dad would always tell them, she's trying to figure out if she can trust you.

**Debbie Millman** (4:34)
Wow.

**Sonya Passi** (4:35)
I definitely had a capacity at a young age to make grown men feel very nervous.

**Leisha Hailey** (4:43)
I did not think you were going there with that statement. Very good.

**Sonya Passi** (4:49)
But I was full of life as a kid. My mom used to describe me as the bubbles of champagne.

**Debbie Millman** (4:57)
Where do you think that early confidence came from? Usually that comes from good parenting, but I'm not sure in your case if that's accurate.

**Sonya Passi** (5:06)
I think part of it is who I am. I think part of it is that I have the very good fortune of having gotten the best of both of my parents.
My mom really is a force to be reckoned with, a manifesto of all of her dreams. My father is too. So I got that. I witnessed it and I modeled it, and certainly in my younger years, I was very much raised with the idea that I could do and be anything that I wanted to be. That's a great blessing as a little girl.