Shifts In The Creator Economy, Kylie Jenner x Meta, GPT 5.6 Limited Release | Diet TBPN

**John Coogan** (0:00)
We're back, we miss you guys, we miss you guys a lot.

**Jordi Hays** (0:03)
Yeah, it was rough.

**John Coogan** (0:04)
It's genuinely brutal. We feel deeply unwell by around 1 p.m. if we haven't gone live, regardless of the time zone.

**Jordi Hays** (0:12)
The sweating and shaking is crazy.

**John Coogan** (0:14)
Yeah.

**Jordi Hays** (0:14)
It is a full withdrawal.

**John Coogan** (0:16)
Yeah, and the withdrawals, I mean, maybe it would get better after a few weeks, but yeah, the symptoms are brutal.

**Jordi Hays** (0:22)
Anyway, it was a high stakes trip. Of course, Jordi has battled with French president Daniel McCrone in the past. And then what appeared to be a direct shot at me, France recently banned nicotine pouches fully.
Very controversial.

**John Coogan** (0:39)
Pretty much all oral nicotine products banned.

**Jordi Hays** (0:41)
Yeah.

**John Coogan** (0:42)
As of April.

**Jordi Hays** (0:43)
Cannes, Lyons.
It used to be mostly about creative advertisements, giving awards for creativity. And there's a big focus on the creator economy. It's not packed with A-list celebrities, but it feels like everyone has a following of some sort. And that was a big point of discussion. Like there was one level of conversation that was just like creators are the future. Everyone's heard this pitch a million times, but the bigger discussion was something that Andrew Ross Sorkin from Squawk Box CNBC deal book mentioned, talking about the trade-offs between independence and consolidation. You've talked about this before, just the idea of a roll up of independent sub stackers. Where is the right economy of scale in the creator economy? Maybe not everyone should be independent. Maybe not everyone should be with a large organization. And this trade-off is sort of interesting to dig into as we see both creators go bigger and produce more expensive shows. And then also the legacy media companies are getting better at social media type content. So we can kind of dig into this. I'm flying back from Cannes. Something I've been thinking about. I was taken aback by how some of what I thought were most successful, influencers say that they need to spend so much money to keep up that they're not making the kind of headline popping numbers we often read about and he asks for thoughts. I think there's a few things happening. One is the big transition from independent creators pivoting from making content to making shows and you can look at subway takes in this way.
The other show is keep the meter running much more produced, much more edited, much more costly to produce. But you're still faced with some of the awkwardness around how do you actually monetize that. There isn't a logical ad break, although I think there should be in a three-minute subway takes video, a three-minute episode. I think that it would be fine to have a five to 10 second mid roll in the middle of that. But that has not been done, like that floodgate hasn't opened yet. So, most creators are doing either a really polished vertical video about their own content, and then they'll do a promoted post that's another 30 second, 60 second multi-minute vertical video in their same style, but purely sponsored content. A lot of those videos don't go as viral. So, you have this awkward trade-off where the content that's great, that people want, can't be monetized, so you have to do one and one. It'd be a little bit tricky. Part of the way our show works is that we're just talking about whatever, and then we'll tell you about Cisco, critical infrastructure for the AI era, unlock seamless real-time experiences, and new value with Cisco.
It would be different if we had to do every other episode as just purely about Cisco, and then we go back to about the news and talking. And so, that's something that's starting to evolve in those higher cost structures. I think that they still have more enduring value.

**John Coogan** (3:31)
Yeah, Forbes came out with their top creators list and earnings. Mr. Beast was at the top with 300 million.

**Jordi Hays** (3:38)
Huge.

**John Coogan** (3:39)
I would imagine.

**Jordi Hays** (3:39)
But that's revenue.

**John Coogan** (3:40)
Yeah. Earnings is not the right word here. It should just be gross revenue.
I have no idea what Jimmy's margins actually look like on that 300 It would appear he's spending like 90 years.

**Jordi Hays** (3:54)
But he's obsessed with reinvesting for the future and growth.

**John Coogan** (3:56)
Yeah, that's always been a part of his brand.

**Jordi Hays** (3:57)
As opposed to Joe Rogan, who has these big deals, and he seems completely content to be in a tiny set.