Podcast growth strategies (paid and organic) with Jeff Umbro of The Podglomerate

**Jeff Umbro** (0:00)
I think it's something that's achievable for a lot of different people. You don't have to take a swing on everything that you do, but you should take a few in order to try and intentionally grow the audience in that way.

**Jay Clouse** (0:25)
Hello, my friend, welcome back to another episode of Creator Science. In keeping with our recent string of episodes related to podcasting, this week, I'm speaking with my friend, Jeff Umbro. Jeff is the founder and CEO of The Podglomerate, which helps you produce, market and monetize your podcast. The Podglomerates worked with some of the biggest podcast clients in the world, from indie creators like me to major brands like Netflix, NPR, PBS, HubSpot, Harvard, Substack and more. Since its start in 2016, The Podglomerate has grown to represent more than 70 podcasts, accounting for more than 30 million monthly downloads, with shows topping the podcast charts and receiving features on every major podcast app with national coverage across print, digital, radio and television. All that to say, Jeff is legit and he knows his stuff. In fact, one of the things I appreciate most about Jeff is that he's just honest and he's a straight shooter. And in podcasting, there are some questionable characters. And as we hear at the beginning of this interview, this very podcast may not exist, if not for Jeff and his early guidance for the show. So in this episode, we talk about podcast growth. We explore both organic and paid growth strategies, Jeff's experience with both. And of course, I share my experience as well. And we're not completely on the same page. We have some differing opinions here. If you find yourself enjoying this episode, tag me at Jay Clouse on social media and let me know that you're listening. But now let's talk with Jeff.
Jeff, great to chat with you. What people may not know listening to this is, I'm not sure the show exists without you. To be honest.

**Jeff Umbro** (2:02)
That's the nicest thing that I've heard today, and I don't believe it for a second.

**Jay Clouse** (2:06)
Well, I don't know, I don't know. So the backstory with Jeff, I might as well share this. I was running a podcast that was not successful, and I met Michael Saka, who was running Rockachip.fm. His podcast, at least in my eyes, was successful, and I said, Michael, save me. And he says, I don't know, but Jeff knows, and Jeff helped us grow, and he basically sends me a check every month. And I said, that sounds great. So I got in touch with you, you were very generous with your time, and you're basically like, listen, your show is already in market, and it's too late for me to save you, but if you ever start another show, let me know. And that's what I did, and Podglomerate launched the show.

**Jeff Umbro** (2:45)
And we love it, by the way. I've learned a lot from you, and it's been really cool to see the journey over the years, and to think. I almost passed on this.

**Jay Clouse** (2:55)
And similarly, before we actually launched it, you gave me a really great piece of advice that stuck with me, which was, I was really into WTF with Marc Maron, and I thought to myself, I should just bullshit around for 10 minutes before the episode starts. And so when I sent you the first cut of the first episode, the first 10 or 15 minutes was me just like talking about what I was doing. And you listen to it and you're like, this is a show, but it's not good yet. And you should probably cut all of that.

**Jeff Umbro** (3:28)
I hope I didn't say it like that, but...

**Jay Clouse** (3:30)
That's the way I remember it. So I don't know if it was that direct or not. But you're basically like, you should cut all of that and you should consider adding some production touches to it, like narration. And you pointed me to Without Fail by Gimlet, which is a great show that doesn't exist anymore. And it really, it was really the backbone of what the show was, came to be. And I wanted to pass that along for anyone listening.

**Jeff Umbro** (3:54)
Thank you so much for saying that. It truly means a lot, especially coming from you. And I do want to push back though, because I think that you are the type of person who would have figured this out and made this work no matter what. So, you know, a different show may have existed, but your show would have happened.

**Jay Clouse** (4:10)