New Angles on Crypto - Kyle Samani and Tushar Jain

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (0:00)
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Hello and welcome everyone. I'm Patrick O'Shaughnessy, and this is Invest Like the Best. This show is an open-ended exploration of markets, ideas, methods, stories, and of strategies that will help you better invest both your time and your money. You can learn more and stay up to date at investorfieldguide.com.

**SPEAKER_2** (1:23)
Patrick O'Shaughnessy is the CEO of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.
Clients of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (1:58)
My guests this week are Kyle Samani and Tushar Jain, both managing partners at Multicoin Capital. I've taken a bit of a break from crypto because I hadn't sensed many new angles to explore in this forum, especially from an investor's point of view. I felt that while things kept evolving, the major investment theses had been established and explored. Kyle and Tushar are interesting because of their often divergent views. For example, Kyle has been an outspoken supporter of Ethereum relative to Bitcoin.
This conversation, which is meant for those still curious about crypto, offers lots of new food for thought. We discussed smart contract platforms, network effects, the coming platform wars, and why blockchains may not matter at all in 10 years.
Like the Hash Power documentary, this episode and other Hash Power singles are brought to you by Fidelity Investments, a company that is constantly researching and experimenting with emerging technologies like crypto assets and blockchain to improve the lives of their customers. Fidelity provides a comprehensive set of products and services to individual investors, employers, and financial advisory firms. For more information, please visit fidelity.com. Please enjoy my conversation with the partners of Multicoin Capital.
So we're gonna approach this conversation almost like I'm an LP, and you guys need to convince me of a variety of things in the crypto world. And we'll start at the very broadest level, which is this idea of what the path may be for the crypto beta, let's say, or total network value to reach five or $10 trillion. Something massive that would result a huge multiple invested capital for people that are putting money into the crypto world today. So maybe we could start very broadly with that idea. What might be the path from here to there, and where, I don't know how many paths there are, you tell me, along each of those paths, what kind of cryptocurrencies would represent the winners?

**Kyle Samani** (3:49)
This is Kyle. So we wrote a post about this a couple months ago. It's called Paths to Tens of Trillions.
And in this post, I kind of lay out, among the crypto people, what we kind of debate about is the fundamental hypotheses and the ways by which we think different crypto assets could become worth tens of trillions of dollars.
So if you buy into the general thesis of a global digital reserve assets and things that governments can't inflate and the kind of peer-to-peer model, if you buy that there should be some global digital currency there. And the question is, well, what's the path by which we get there? So one path is what I call the store value hypothesis. This is really espoused by the Bitcoin community. And this basically says that you need very few features in this global digital reserve asset to get to that end state. You basically need just a handful of things. You need it to be very secure. You need to make sure it's self-sovereign. You want to make sure it's censorship resistant. You want to make sure that governments, no matter how hard they try, can't shut it down. And that's kind of sort of basically all the sort of value hypothesis people say. Oh, and they also mandate either fixed supply or very predictable, very low inflation schedule. And that's basically the only requirements to the store value hypothesis. And so Bitcoin really is kind of the purest representation of this hypothesis. And these folks basically say, look, just make sure it works and any other features are fine. But if they come at the expense of any of these kind of core characteristics, then they're probably not worth having. And you can add them in layer two or some other place.