Most Replayed Moment: Brené Brown on Vulnerability, Self Esteem and The Four Skillsets Of Courage

**Steven Bartlett** (0:00)
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On that point about meat and vulnerability, is vulnerability important? Because there's a lot of performative vulnerability taking place in the industry. Is it an important thing for my health, happiness, my future to be a vulnerable person?

**Brené Brown** (1:32)
Well, let's define it. Vulnerability is the emotion we experience when we are up against uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure. Vulnerability is what I feel. It's the cringe, the awkward, the emotion I feel in times of uncertainty, risk or emotional exposure. So it was really interesting because I had a hard time helping people understand because we are so raised to believe that vulnerability is weakness, that it took a trip to Fort Bragg working with special forces to ask soldiers a question. Give me a single example of courage in your life. One example that you've witnessed or you yourself have done. One example of courage that did not require uncertainty, risk, or emotional exposure.
No one could answer it. Finally, a young soldier stood up and said three tours. There is no courage without vulnerability. So is vulnerability important? It is if we want to be brave with our lives.
If we want to be able to manage ourselves in a way that's values aligned and courageous, we have to be able to reconcile how we feel when we're uncertain at risk or exposed. I mean, and really weirdly, the next week after the trip to Fort Bragg, I was with the Seattle Seahawks, the football team, NFL team, asked the players, give me an example of courage on the field or off. That did not require vulnerability. They said that it's not possible. There is no courage. Like if you're doing things in your life, in your work, and there's no risk, no uncertainty, and no exposure, then they're not brave. If you know how it's going to end, that is not courage.
Courage is the willingness to show up and be all in when you cannot predict the outcome. Courage is saying, I love you first.
You want to know what vulnerability is? I love you first. Have you ever said, I love you first?

**Steven Bartlett** (3:51)
I'm not sure.

**Brené Brown** (3:52)
Yeah, but it's hard.

**Steven Bartlett** (3:54)
Sorry, I need to give context. It's been a while since I've been in that situation.

**Brené Brown** (3:59)
Well, you had to go first.

**Steven Bartlett** (4:00)
Yeah, we had to go first.

**Brené Brown** (4:02)
Yeah, I mean, there's this great story that I tell about... I gave a talk here, I was actually in LA, and afterwards a kid came up to me, he was probably 22 or 23, and he said, can I tell you a story about your work and how it's really changed my life? And I was like, sure. And a kind of a crowd grew around, and this is like the last time I ever got pinned, like not being able to exit a stage, because it was such a traumatic, it wasn't traumatic, but it was like, he said, well, I was dating this woman, and I was so crazy about her. So I took her to eat to our favorite restaurant, and I waited until the dessert came, because we love this chocolate volcano, and I ordered it, and I said, I love you. And she looked at me and she said, I think you're awesome.
And I think we should date other people.
And then she ubered home. And so I was like, god damn, this is the worst story I've ever heard.