Martin Shkreli: From Most Hated Man to Optical Computing Visionary – Curiosity & Defiance

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
Near the home Isn't home where we all want to be? Reba here for realtor.com, the Pro's number one most trusted app. Finding a home is like dating. You're not just looking for a place to live, you're searching for the one. That's where realtor.com comes in. Like any good matchmaker, they know exactly where to look. With over 500,000 new real listings straight from the Pro's every month, you could find your perfect match today. Ranch style with a pool, barn dominium with an in-law suite, Realtor.com's got them. Modern craftsmen with a big yard and a tree house out back, realtor.com will have you saying, yep, that's the one. No more swiping, it's time to start finding. Download the realtor.com app today, cause you're nearly home. Make it real with realtor.com.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:51)
Pro's number one most trusted app based on August 2025 proprietary survey. Over 500,000 new listings every month based on average new for sale and rental listings, July 2024 to June 2025 Today on the James Altucher Show.

**Martin Shkreli** (1:04)
What do you think about that guy? Well, he's the most hated man in America. You know, according to who? According to this guy that told me to think that. But if you're brave and you're energetic, you can learn. And I think that as we get older, we tend to avoid that. And I think one of the things I've heard about entrepreneurs like Elon and others is you sort of have to stay young and stay in a young mentality. My refusal to apologize, my refusal to bow to people, my willingness to disrespect, say Congress or presidential candidates was unusual. But it's just this funny thing where like just being yourself can be so dangerous. You ultimately do have to take risks in life. And I think that part of what the government, when I say the government again, it's part of specific people that want to do is enforce this idea that they're very powerful. And that they don't want you to take certain kinds of risks because they'll come and get you. But if you take the risks anyway, you're implicitly saying you're not as powerful as you think you are. And if you keep neutering that power, that's all they got.

**SPEAKER_2** (2:03)
This isn't your average business podcast, and he's not your average host. This is the James Altucher Show.

**James Altucher** (2:20)
Is he the most hated man in America? I don't think so, actually. Martin Shkreli was notorious for various reasons that you'll hear about in this episode. Crazy stories, but I've come to know Martin in the past few months as both friend and business partner. And well, let's just hear stories and hear the explanations. And I think you'll agree with me that this is one of the smartest people I've ever had on the podcast.
You've been called the most hated man in America. When you were first called that, did you view that as a funny thing, or did it upset you?

**Martin Shkreli** (3:07)
I absolutely thought it was funny. It's such a crazy caricature or way to describe somebody, because I have this theory that biographers, and generally anyone writing, say more about themselves and their subjects. And so when you write a book about Einstein or Leonardo da Vinci, you're actually telling more of your story than theirs, because their stories are known. And your lens and how you refract, so to speak, the information is really revealing. There's no new information about Albert Einstein, but what you focus on, the way you look at it, tells a lot about the biographers. Same thing with journalists where you write a headline like that. What does that mean? That means that you think that. There's no consensus. You didn't do a census. You didn't do a survey. You basically are saying, at best, you're saying people like me and my friends circle don't like this guy. And then you're adding some hyperbole. So it's such a it's a dishonest, you know, it's so palpably dishonest. But I think this insidious part here is that what you're really trying to do instead of saying this mean my friends think this way, you're really trying to say you should think this way. And you know, that's I think the scary thing that somebody says. What do you think about that guy? Well, he's the most hated man in America.
You know, according to who? According to this guy that told me to think that. And you know, it's a very like pernicious thing. And I think over time, people have realized that you can't just do that. It's not going to work. It's not going to convince everyone. You could say that, you know, everyone hates President Trump, right guys? You know, it doesn't automatically take into effect. It doesn't work that way. People make up their own minds now. And I feel like, you know, the reason it stopped working is that subtle suggestive leads like that could work, right? You know, like the old newspapers just have headlines like, editorials especially, like, could this price increase decision backfire? That would be like the suggestive, like, hey, think about this as potentially being bad, as opposed to, no, worst thing ever, you know, let's crucify this person, etc. And I think obviously one sells more than the other. One's more intellectually honest than the other. So it was really funny to me, but I think in retrospect, I should have taken more seriously.