John Kiriakou

**Theo Von** (0:00)
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Today's guest is an author, he's a speaker, he's a former CIA officer who's also known for being a whistleblower in the CIA's use of torture. He has a new book coming out called The Ultimate Guide to CIA Skills, Tactics and Techniques. Today's guest is Mr. John Kiriakou.

**John Kiriakou** (1:53)
Yeah, I applied for a presidential pardon.

**Theo Von** (1:56)
You applied for a presidential pardon?

**John Kiriakou** (1:59)
Yeah, yeah. In fact, I brought a couple of letters. I hope you don't...

**Theo Von** (2:03)
As long as you don't meet me, if I sign them, it's not gonna help anything. I'm just telling you that.

**John Kiriakou** (2:07)
Oh, okay, I was gonna ask if you thought it would be helpful. I got...

**Theo Von** (2:12)
Did you really?

**John Kiriakou** (2:13)
Oh, yeah.

**Theo Von** (2:14)
Oh, okay, dang, I was joking.

**John Kiriakou** (2:16)
Oh, no, no, no. I'm talking to Tulsi Gabbard on Friday. Did I tell you that?

**Theo Von** (2:20)
Oh, nice, her husband is winning a surgery today, I saw. Yeah, the poor guy. I messaged her with her yesterday.

**John Kiriakou** (2:24)
She's great.

**Theo Von** (2:25)
Yeah, Tulsi Gabbard, she seems... There's just something about her that seems genuine to me.

**John Kiriakou** (2:32)
And that's why they tried to destroy her.

**Theo Von** (2:34)
Is that what you think is going on with her right now?

**John Kiriakou** (2:36)
That's why the Democrats tried to destroy her, I really do.

**Theo Von** (2:38)
But even right now, I mean, she's just taking a leave. I know it's for her husband's health.

**John Kiriakou** (2:43)
Yeah. Oh, yeah, headed into surgery this morning.

**Theo Von** (2:46)
Oh, is that what it says?

**John Kiriakou** (2:47)
Yeah, she tweeted or she... Instagram day.

**Theo Von** (2:51)
Yeah.
Yeah, do you think... Because she's kind of like... And she just took a break. She took a complete break from politics. Yeah.

**John Kiriakou** (2:58)
You remember when she was running as a Democrat?
Every time she would inch up in the polls, the DNC would change the rules for participating in the next debate. So they would do it just one or two percentage points out of her reach every single time because they were threatened by her message. She just wouldn't get with their program.

**Theo Von** (3:15)
She's always seemed very, like she has her own...

**John Kiriakou** (3:19)
Oh, she was definitely independent.

**Theo Von** (3:21)
Independent, that's what it is. She's always seemed very independent. Well, they did the same thing with Bernie Sanders.

**John Kiriakou** (3:26)
They did exactly the same thing with Bernie Sanders.

**Theo Von** (3:28)
So I guess what my question would be like, you know, and I can't remember if I asked Bernie this or not, but why would you stay in a party that you know at a certain point is not, that's cheating you? Yes.

**John Kiriakou** (3:41)
And you know, the Democrats did something in after the 1972 election, which I think people don't pay anywhere near enough attention to.
Nobody at the DNC wanted George McGovern to be the 1972 nominee. He was the most popular at the time, especially among young people, but he was he was the weakest nationwide and he ended up losing 49 states. But, you know, it's a party of the people, right? If the people want George McGovern as the nominee, then George McGovern should be the nominee.

**Theo Von** (4:14)
And they didn't let him become the nominee?

**John Kiriakou** (4:15)
No, they let him become the nominee. And then as soon as he lost the race, they instituted this this thing called superdelegates. So if you are a member of the House, a member of the Senate, a governor, lieutenant governor, a state party director, a state committee chairman, you're automatically made a delegate to the convention. Well, there are like 1500 of them.