Influence After Empire: Is Britain Still a Great Power? (Professor Brendan Simms)

**James Marriott** (0:00)
Hello again, it's James Marriott here. I'll be back with you on Radical next week to talk about something that you're doing right now as I speak, aging. I know, it's pretty depressing, but stick with me. We're all living longer, which is great. But are our politics, workplaces and pensions keeping up? On the next episode, I'll be speaking to the leading gerontologist Sarah Harper, who says many people in their 70s and even their 80s still have a full and important role to play in society.
She wants us to be more radical in redesigning work, training and public policy around longer lives. Now, that's not a super popular thing to say, at least out loud in the current political climate. We've heard a lot on this very podcast about the problems facing young people, quite rightly, and also about the uniquely cushy and delightful economic environment enjoyed by many members of the older generation she's talking about. So I want to hear what you have to say. We'll be putting your radical questions to Professor Harper for a Q&A episode. So please get in touch on WhatsApp plus 443301239480, or email radical at bbc.co.uk.
That's it from me for now. Here's this week's episode.

**Sophia Smith Galer** (1:32)
Hello, and welcome to Radical, conversations about the underlying forces reshaping our world and the radical ideas that could define the future. I'm Sophia Smith Galer. I'm an author and journalist, back with you this week on Radical, to talk about something that comes up on this podcast quite a lot. The state of the nation, the problems facing our country, and whether we can reasonably call Britain great.
The dominant discourse about the UK's place in the world is that we are a much diminished force on the global stage, no longer the military and economic power of our imperial past, reduced to an onlooker or even victim of global affairs and power struggles, rather than an influential agent capable of shaping the world. But my guest today takes a view that runs contrary to much of this received wisdom. Brendan Simms is Professor of the History of European International Relations at the University of Cambridge, and he argues that the UK remains one of the world's great powers, alongside the US, China and Russia. He argues that the UK has underestimated its own strength in the world, and although its influence has declined over the decades, it is still possible, and in his view, desirable, for the UK to keep its place at the top table. He's made his case in a new book called The Return of the Great Powers, which as the title suggests, also claims that great power politics in general has returned as the dominant force shaping the world today. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Professor Brendan Simms.
Brendan, thank you so much for joining us on Radical.

**Brendan Simms** (3:17)
Thank you for having me.

**Sophia Smith Galer** (3:19)
My first question for you is, how was it that you arrived to this thesis of the UK still being this great power?

**Brendan Simms** (3:31)
Well, my criteria for great powerness are fourfold. You have to have the resources, the reach, the reputation, and the resilience, the so-called four R's, as I call them. Now, if you look at those four criteria, obviously, they will be satisfied to a greater or lesser extent across different powers. But in the case of the UK, if you take resources, the UK is certainly in the top five or six largest economies in the world. The UK is a nuclear power. It is a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council.
It has probably the second most capable intelligence services in the world. Actually, the Russians think the UK's intelligence service are probably better than the CIA. That's maybe an exaggeration, but certainly, they are among the top two intelligence services in the world. So in terms of resources, the UK is pretty strong. When it comes to reach, the UK has got bases across parts of the world. It's got bases in Gibraltar, in Cyprus, in Falkland Islands. So it has the reach, which is also reinforced by its expeditionary capabilities through the carrier strike force.
It has reputation. It is highly regarded. So if you take, for instance, when the Swedes and the Finns were applying for NATO membership in the summer of 2022, after the full scale invasion of Ukraine, there was a period between the application point and the kicking in of the Article 5 NATO guarantee, where essentially they were defenceless in case the Russians took Umbridge.
In that situation, they asked for and were given unilateral security guarantees by the UK, which is a sure sign that they really rated, as we would say nowadays, the UK as a military power. The UK is the commander or the leader of the Joint Expeditionary Force in the Bolting and the High North, so is a leading force in that regard. And is in general regarded also as a strong force in terms of soft power, cultural reach, English language, the BBC, of course, the monarchy, many other things that give Britain a kind of reputation in the world. And then lastly, when we come to resilience, there are many problems in the UK undoubtedly, but it does have over hundreds of years, an unbroken tradition of being a single state, of being a union state, which, you know, if you were to compare it, for example, with France, with Germany, with Russia in particular, even with China, that's absolutely not the case. So for all those four reasons, I classify the UK as a great power.