How Visa Is Dominating The Digital Asset Card Market | Joshua Moss

**Robbie Klages** (0:00)
Welcome back to Stabled Up, episode number 30, our weekly premiere Stablecoin show, powered by our friends at Frax with their FRX USD product. Visit frax.finance guys to learn more. If you've been watching, you've seen this show evolve. Today, we have a larger fintech public company in the nest, in the tokenization tower, Joshua Moss. Good to have you, man.

**Joshua Moss** (0:20)
Thank you for having me.

**Robbie Klages** (0:21)
Welcome to the tower.

**Joshua Moss** (0:22)
Thank you, we have a great view.

**Robbie Klages** (0:23)
Not a bad view. I can see the Visa office, your apartment, where you were having drinks on Saturday.

**Joshua Moss** (0:30)
It's all there.

**Robbie Klages** (0:31)
It's all there. Josh, what is your role at Visa and how did you join the company? Welcome to the show.

**Joshua Moss** (0:37)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. So I've been Visa for about five years now.
And most recently, I've moved into a role leading our stable coin product strategy and go to market focused on stable coins for commercial and money movement solutions business. So there's a lot to unpack there. And just to explain what we do, just generally in the CMS or commercial and money movement solutions business, on the commercial side, that's essentially you go to a coffee shop, use your consumer card, right? Everything outside of that consumer transaction is really what we focus on in the commercial business. So that coffee shop needs to pay its suppliers and needs to pay its rent, employees, etc. That's what we focus on in the commercial business. And then on the Visa direct side, that's the core of our money movement business.
And that's where we have over 12 billion endpoints across cards, accounts and wallets. And what we're doing across both of those business lines are finding ways to embed stable coins and blockchain technology in our solutions.

**Robbie Klages** (1:46)
Amazing. And this has been a long time coming from the blockchain world, like from the sense of like, okay, we had stable coins as a construct, right? Like, so when I joined the space, we were trading against Bitcoin. That was the only pair. Stable coins came out, they dominated the trading landscape. And for us, it was very obvious that these things were far more practical and feasible than an ACH, than a wire.
But like all things, these kind of industries are kind of slow to mature through the regulatory process, through the adoption process. But it feels like something happened where like, we reached this tipping point.
There's a very good book called The Tipping Point that explains kind of exactly what's happening right now in stable coins. What would you describe as Visa's tipping point, right? Or the kind of way that you guys have approached the payment space as it pertains to stable coins. What was the company's large kind of like, okay, this is it type of moment?

**Joshua Moss** (2:43)
Yeah, definitely. So we view stable coins as both a currency and a rail. So at Visa, we've actually been in the space for quite a long time and specifically in Visa Direct. So for example, when you go to Coinbase and you want to buy cryptocurrency or stable coins, that's using what we call an account funding transaction or AFT. And what that is doing is essentially pulling funds from your account to bring you on chain, to on ramp you so that you can then trade cryptocurrency at an exchange like Coinbase. Now let's say you've been hodling for a while and you've made a bunch of money on Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency, and you want to off ramp. That's where we have what's called OCTs or original credit transactions, where we're essentially pushing those funds back to your card.
And so that's really how we've started in the space, and then we've just continued to expand from there.

**Robbie Klages** (3:44)
Yeah.
And so this kind of contract of on ramping and off ramping was like the primary, like original breakthrough thought process. It wasn't like the speed or the cost or the 24-7. It was purely the on and the off ramp side.

**Joshua Moss** (3:58)
Well, so that was one piece of it. And really what we try to do is provide a bridge between both the TradFi and DeFi worlds. And so that can show up in the form of the speed and efficiency of Stablecoins.
And then also really starting with the DeFi world and trying to bring them into TradFi and bring our TradFi clients on chain. And now what we're doing is we're looking at how we can support our TradFi clients and bring them on chain for some of these specific use cases.