Has Bitcoin Bottomed? Jordi Visser on AI, Inflation, and Moats

**Jordi Visser** (0:00)
Bitcoin kind of tells me that the next time it breaks higher this time, if it does, when it does, whatever the case is, I don't think this one is going to stop as quickly. I think you're a lot of people that have been selling for a long period of time that have been moving out. And I know retail and ETFs are by and hold, and they're going to be raising their weightings. And so I wrote a piece on this, on the Bitcoin IPO. I believe we've had a massive distribution of which makes sense. And I think eventually when it breaks higher this time, I don't think it's going to stop.

**Ryan** (0:33)
We've had a bunch of cycle investors on the podcast. Most of them are bearish. Most of them have said crypto has not yet bottomed. They're not bearish over the long run, but they're bearish right now.
But our guest today is definitely not that. Jordi Visser, he's not one of them. He's bullish now. He thinks Bitcoin has already bottomed. He thinks that the crypto winter will be the mildest ever. He thinks inflation and AI is going to drive investors towards what he calls a scarcity portfolio. We get into that portfolio on today's episode because he is front running it right now. What's his thesis for this new regime? What are the best assets to own? We talk about all this.

**David** (1:10)
One thing I've noticed Ryan lately is that previously in early years of Bankless, we would have guests on the show and they would be like, I'm bullish or I'm bearish.
And that's not what the pattern that I've picked up on lately. There's been a lot more people who I think are uniquely bullish in some parts of the market and bearish in other parts of the market more so than I've ever seen in the past. Jordi, I think, articulated this very precisely where he's like, these are the assets that are going to go up, these are the assets that are going to go down. And this is downstream of this big regime change in the market that he and many others are articulating. I think he articulated his version of this like post-AI regime change market structure better than I've seen others. And so enjoyed him coming on the podcast. Let's go into the conversation right now.

**Ryan** (2:05)
Jordi, welcome to Bankless. It's great to have you.

**Jordi Visser** (2:08)
It's good to finally be here, Ryan. How you doing?

**Ryan** (2:10)
Doing fantastic. Thanks for visiting a shitcoiner podcast. We appreciate you.
Maybe in the end, we'll get to your takes on some of the down market calls aside from Bitcoin, whether you think anything else in crypto is valuable. But I actually want to start with the king of crypto, which is Bitcoin. And I saw a clip circulating last week of you on CNBC. Thank you for visiting TradFi CNBC and talking to them about crypto. And you said this, I'll put my neck out on the line here and say that the next time I see you, Bitcoin will be significantly higher. You said that to the CNBC host. So my first question is, when are you next planning to go on CNBC and be on that show and tell her that Bitcoin is higher? When's that going to happen?

**Jordi Visser** (2:58)
Yeah, I'm already going to tell the producer I can't come back until it's higher.
I've been going in about every four weeks. So my guess is it'll be a few weeks from now.
And it would, you know, since you saw the viral clip, but the entire context was really more about the world's transitioning and we're going to have negative real rates very soon. Or at least that's my belief. We'll certainly be close to the break-even point of real rates as we get into the next CPI number in May. Current numbers are for around 3.6, so not far from the Fed funds rate. So my point to her in the brief time that I talked about Bitcoin, because to your point, I straddle the traditional finance world with most of my time, most of my business is geared towards what's moving AI stocks, how AI is disrupting macro, but it all ends up in the same place for me, which is eventually the disruption is so big from this force, which is beyond anything people can comprehend, that you'll get to a point where that's where the benefits of Bitcoin start to really become known. And part of that is the physical constraints of AI, which is the point we're at now, which is part of what's happening and going to happen with inflation.