George Kamel Breaks Silence on Dave Ramsey Controversy, Early Retirement, & Getting Debt-Free

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**Graham Stephan** (0:52)
I want to have money without having money.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:54)
It's a fancy plastic IOU card that will have you swimming in debt for the rest of your and your offspring's life.

**George Kamel** (1:02)
The system exists to screw you over. The system exists to keep you broke. And then you have a choice. As a human being with free will, you get to decide whether or not you want to be a part of the system.

**SPEAKER_4** (1:12)
Americans are carrying more debt than ever before, $18.6 trillion.

**Graham Stephan** (1:18)
What are most people wasting their money on?

**George Kamel** (1:19)
Wants and not needs.
And there's all sorts of ways you can get the thing you want now without having the money. And that's the part that scares me.

**Jack Selby** (1:27)
This is proof that the system is rigged or it's just a personal failure.

**George Kamel** (1:31)
Number one villain in this story is the person. And if I can teach people how to budget, how to get out of debt, all of a sudden, they can start affording the things in their life that they want without needing to turn to these companies.
There is no magic time in your life or income level in your life when you go, that's when I'm gonna get good with money. Get good with money now, no matter what you're making, and then work to get your income up, and then everything will scale.

**Graham Stephan** (1:53)
What happened to Ken Coleman?

**George Kamel** (1:55)
What did he say?

**Jack Selby** (2:06)
George Kamel, Ramsey personality, thank you so much for coming on The Iced Coffee Hour.

**George Kamel** (2:10)
It's an honor. Is this my third time?

**Jack Selby** (2:12)
I think this might be the third time.

**George Kamel** (2:14)
We had the first one was with Dave Ramsey. I joined him. Then I think we've done two since then, so this is my fourth.

**Graham Stephan** (2:20)
People love them.

**George Kamel** (2:21)
Oh, that's sweet. Well, thanks for having me back on. I love the show, so I'm a fan.

**Jack Selby** (2:26)
Thanks for coming on. We have so much to cover. There are just some crazy studies.

**George Kamel** (2:31)
Have things been happening out there?

**Jack Selby** (2:32)
A lot of things have been happening. A lot of debt has been happening. We have a lot that we need to disagree on.

**George Kamel** (2:37)
Okay.

**Jack Selby** (2:38)
But first and foremost, an ex Ramsey employee, Anthony O'Neill, made a video claiming that he's shifted perspectives since working at Ramsey. He said that if you have paid off your debt and stayed paid off for two years, then it's fine to start maybe getting an AMX card, paying that off at the end of every month, having a system in place to make sure auto pay is on and start building credit. What do you say about that?

**George Kamel** (3:03)
Well, I disagree. I see his point in that he's saying, hey, once you've had the discipline of not going back into debt, you can reintroduce it. But to me, the same reasons you went into debt, that person is still inside and you can change, you can be disciplined. But I don't think it makes it better than if you use your own money.

**Jack Selby** (3:21)
So once a borrower, always a borrower.

**George Kamel** (3:23)
Yeah, I mean, I had some credit card debt and I haven't been in debt for 13 years. So could I potentially use a credit card?
I'm going to put this in huge air quotes, wisely, pay it off every month and maybe accumulate some points. Probably. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. And I think I still would spend more than if I stuck to my debit and cash. So I disagree that that's advice that people should go out there and open credit cards if they've been debt-free for two years. I think you're just better off never opening it again.