Downstream: ‘They Want Racial Holy War’ – The Truth About the US Military w/ Matt Kennard

**Aaron Bastani** (0:08)
Here on Downstream, we talk about a range of topics, from the rise of political extremism and ideologues to the collapse of empires, both past and present. And today's conversation is bringing those two things together, particularly in the case of the United States, where you have somebody like Pete Hegseth, who's now the Secretary of State for War, very much a fanatic. That wasn't the case 20 years ago. At the same time, America is clearly in comparative decline, whether it's on its ability to project military power, it can't win a war against Iran, or with technology. Just look at the EVs being pumped out by China. Today's guest wrote a book 14 years ago, which was a precursor to much of this, Irregular Army, How the US Military Recruited Neo-Nazis, Gang Members and Criminals. That was the starting point for a journey which America now kind of feels is ending in a way. These people who were previously quite marginal in the country's political life are now in positions of power, just like Mr. Hegseth.
Why are we talking about America when we're based in Britain? It's a good question. It's because the journey America has been on for 20 years is something I can see us just beginning here now in the UK. So if you're British, you might be thinking, why are we having a conversation about the far right and imperial decline when it's another country? It is of course, and that's interesting in itself, but the implications for Britain, the radical right and where this country goes in the next 10 to 15 years couldn't be more significant in my opinion. With all that said, it's a pleasure to have you back on for the fourth time, dare I say.
Welcome back to Downstream, Matt Kennard.

**Matt Kennard** (1:47)
It's great to be here. Thank you for having me again.

**Aaron Bastani** (1:48)
We're talking to you about the repubblication of Irregular Army. You first published this in what, 2012?

**Matt Kennard** (1:55)
Yeah.

**Aaron Bastani** (1:56)
Is this the third edition?

**Matt Kennard** (1:57)
Second edition, but it came out in 2015 again with some new material because it's a story that keeps needing to be updated because it's very current. Although it focuses on the war on terror, the aftermath of those wars are being played out every day in the United States.

**Aaron Bastani** (2:17)
Fluent, powerful, unauthoritative. The Financial Times, not Novara Media. So there's your recommendation. Coming from the FT, and just for people who aren't familiar with the book, How the US Military Recruited Neo-Nazis, Gang Members and Criminals. Like I say, first published 14 years ago. Sounds like a book for 2026 Why did you decide to publish this new edition with the new intro at this moment?
What was the jumping off upon? You're writing books, you're doing things all the time, and obviously you've been talking about Gaza for years. So why come back to this?

**Matt Kennard** (2:51)
Well, it was really about one man, you know. It was Secretary of Defense, now Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth. So he was appointed by Trump soon after he was elected president.
And he was one of the soldiers that I was investigating way back at the height of the war on terror. You know, the main way that we were finding out, and I was finding out about extremist soldiers, was tattoos, right? So Swastikas, SS Bolts, other Crusader imagery, Christian nationalist imagery. And that's the same way that the US military had traditionally known extremists who wanted to be recruited were extremists. I mean, they don't often say in interviews, I'm an extremist. So you had, there's a lot of regulations and they teach recruiters how to know what these tattoos meant. But then I saw that Hegseth was one of these soldiers that had these tattoos. And then you're talking about the guy that's been appointed as the most senior, powerful figure within the US military, which is the most powerful military in human history. So I was like, this is the story coming full circle. This is a guy who also did serve in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And he was then a Fox News host as well. And the tattoos that he's got, a Jerusalem cross, which is Crusader imagery. He's got Deus Folt on his arm, which is Latin for God wills it, which is other Crusader imagery. He's got the word Kaffir written in Arabic on his arm, which is a statement of, he sees, he's proudly of Kaffir, it means infidel in Arabic. So he's basically feeding into that idea that there's a civilizational conflict between the West and Islam. So I just felt it was so hugely worrying that this story needs to get back out there. And also that Trump didn't occur in a vacuum. And there's this propensity in Washington from the Democrats and the so-called moderate Republicans to present Trump as a massive outlier, someone who they don't know where he came from. He was just this kind of wild extremist figure that appeared. But actually there's a lot of evidence that he is a product of the war on terror era. And when I say that, I mean, that you can look at the deregulation of the military, someone like Hegseth becoming senior, but also what was done under the Bush administration in terms of the Imperial presidency, you know, the concentration of power in the executive branch, which Trump is now using and being criticized for in Washington. But a lot of the things he's able to do were policies that were put down during the war on terror. So concentration of the power in the executive branch, he's not gone to Congress to get a vote for the kidnapping of Maduro, the attack on Iran, none of that's happened. He also has taken advantage of all the repressive powers that were instituted in the war on terror, so we're talking about the Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance of American citizens. All the conditions were put down for someone like Trump to come along. This is what Edward Snowden called the turnkey tyranny. He said, we're putting in place a system where all it needs is one demagogue, unscrupulous demagogue to come in and use all these mechanisms which are being built.