Dating on the Spectrum

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Spring always feels like a reset. Clearing things out, simplifying what you don't need. Apple Card is built with that same idea in mind. No annual fee, no late fees, and no foreign transaction fees. No fees, period. Get started and apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 17.49% to 27.74% based on credit worthiness. Rates as of January 1st, 2026 Existing customers can view their variable APR in the Wallet app or at card.apple.com. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

**Rachel Abrams** (0:36)
From The New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams, and this is The Daily on Sunday. Today, the reality show Love on the Spectrum, which follows autistic adults as they search for love, has just released its fourth season. The show has largely attracted praise for its realistic, its sensitive portrayals of neurodiverse people, and it's become one of the most popular and unlikely hits on Netflix. Today, Anna Peele, a contributing writer for The Times, talked with the creator and the cast of Love on the Spectrum about the show's origin story, the nuanced criticism, and why it has resonated with so many people. It's Sunday, April 19th.
Anna Peele, welcome to The Daily.

**Anna Peele** (1:33)
Thank you so much for having me.

**Rachel Abrams** (1:35)
You are a culture writer, but you are also a reality TV expert, which I like to think of myself as a reality TV expert just based on how much I watch. But you have actually spent a lot of time reporting and writing extensively about reality TV. So just to start the conversation, I wonder if you could, for people who have not seen this show, tell us a brief overview of the premise of Love on the Spectrum.

**Anna Peele** (1:57)
So Love on the Spectrum follows mostly young people who are on the autism spectrum while they learn to date, often for the first time. The show will set them up, they'll matchmake them, sometimes they'll follow them to speed dating events or things like that. It's incredibly popular. It's one of the biggest shows on Netflix, and it's so unique to have a show that is actually socially responsible, but is also scratching the itch that people have to watch reality dating series.

**Rachel Abrams** (2:24)
This show is noteworthy for approximately one million reasons, but not the least of which is that reality TV is a genre of television that is arguably the most exploitative. The premise of so many shows is that people debase themselves for your amusement, and this show has the potential to be an absolute train wreck of a show, right? Like, this is walking such an ethical tightrope. And what you're saying is that not only does it succeed in walking that tightrope, but it is a commercial success because it is heartwarming, because it makes people feel good.

**Anna Peele** (2:57)
With other dating series, I think that even if viewers say, oh, I'm watching for the romance, I want people to get together, the moments that are really sticky are often the most dramatic and, as you said, exploitative. And what people say is, oh, the people who go on the show signed up for it. So whatever happens to them, they deserve it. This, I think people genuinely want the best for the people on the show, and I think that the people who are making the show want the best for the people who are on the show.
And that's not always the case when you're producing reality television.

**Rachel Abrams** (3:28)
Okay, so let's talk about how the show came to exist. What is its origin story, if you will?

**Anna Peele** (3:33)
So Love on the Spectrum wouldn't exist at all if it weren't for one person. His story, his skills, his very unusual path to making Love on the Spectrum are as unlikely as the show itself becoming the hit that it is.
Hi, Kian.

**Kian O'Cleary** (3:54)
Hi.

**Anna Peele** (3:55)
How's it going?

**Kian O'Cleary** (3:56)
Good. How are you?

**Anna Peele** (3:57)
Doing well, thank you. So his name is Kian O'Cleary.
He's an Australian documentarian, and he got his start in the industry working on huge blockbuster films.

**Kian O'Cleary** (4:10)
My first job in film was the Moby Dick one or do you want me to talk about the cat training one?

**Anna Peele** (4:15)
One of his first jobs was as an assistant cat wrangler, working on the babe sequel.

**Kian O'Cleary** (4:20)
We had, I think, eight or nine of us working in the cat department, and we had 110 cats. So it was a lot to do.