Dan Held: SpaceX Will Hit $100 Trillion Market Cap In 20 Years (The Detailed Thesis)

**Dan Held** (0:00)
There's a long conversation to be had about how efficient L1 transactions are for doing this sort of function, but I think Bitcoin is permissionless and people should do whatever they like on it. For me, it's not about money, it's about a scoreboard of like, Bitcoin going up in value means that the world is subjectively looking at Bitcoin. This led to a huge disillusionment and ultimately a civil war with Bitcoin Cash, where people thought Bitcoin is useful that way.

**Andy** (0:28)
Just like the streets of Manhattan, I'm gonna keep this quick. Over 70% of our viewers are not subscribers. Yes, you. Every week, we interview some of the best entrepreneurs and investors in the financial industry. The easiest way to support our channel is to hit the like and smash the subscribe button. Now sit back, relax and enjoy today's show. All righty guys, we're here in the nest in the tokenization tower with Dan Held. Dan, great to have you buddy.

**Dan Held** (0:50)
Thanks for having me.

**Andy** (0:51)
Welcome to the show. Guys, Dan is one of the OG Bitcoin bulls, I mean, investor, early adopter.
Some would call him a libertarian, early investor and early innovator in the space. So Dan, it's great to have you.
What a day. We're pumping hard, people are sidelined, bears are still out. Clearly bulls are in control for Bitcoin. Everything's moving in the right direction. What's your read?

**Dan Held** (1:17)
Well, it's always funny because it's darkest before dawn. One month ago, people are panicking, saying it's the end of the space, that Bitcoin has failed to reach its promise, institutions aren't here, it's all dead, and now one month later, we see the bullish winds have come back.
This is a classic representation of how the Bitcoin cycles work, fear and despair, complete apathy is what the bottom represents, and I think we had that. There was a widespread amount of apathy of like, it's over, I'm out, a lot of people quitting. It's usually a good bottom sign.
It's the overall, given that this is my fourth cycle, that I think we've bottomed. Now, the strong resurgence is because of the treasury's actions of considering buying back treasuries, or sorry, the Fed's actions to buy treasuries in order to lower the effective rate on bonds. So when we see that happening, basically the world is saying that we don't trust governments to be able to pay back their debt, and that inflation is going to be a growing concern. Of course, Bitcoin is special purpose built for that moment. That's why we pumped so hard from 60K all the way up here to like 81,000 today. I don't think this is going to stop. I don't think it's going to go rocket right up to 100 right now, but this is what Bitcoin is built for, and I think that's why we're seeing the market move as it is.

**Andy** (2:26)
Yeah, I mean, some people call it like the most reflexive financial asset that exists in the world. And so as soon as Treasury Secretary Scott Besson made that claim of, hey, guys, we're buying long ended bonds and to try to reduce the steepening of these curves, which in any normal economics class, they would tell you that the current bond yields are a cause for a crisis. But we live in a fugazi economic world now. As you know, this is why you're a big Bitcoin believer.

**Dan Held** (2:52)
The Druckenmiller, legendary hedge fund manager, came out the other day, wrote that really interesting letter where he said, look, just let the market be the market. If rates are rising, that's fine. It's just the market saying, we don't trust in the US's fiscal policy, we don't trust your ability to cut spending or raise taxes. And so that's basically what that number represents, basically, and also getting inflation under control. So it's funny that they go talk about these buybacks, when in effect, you can't stop the market from moving against you. You can't stop the market from going a certain direction.
So the Treasury's ability to really stop this from happening or these rates to increase is somewhat limited.

**Andy** (3:29)
Yeah, yeah. Well, man, I mean, Bitcoin's, yeah, 81
People are stoked on Ethereum and Solana and all these other names. One name that OG Bitcoiners, who I only have a couple in my network, I consider you one of them now, I'm grateful to have known you.
I got these texts over the last three months, and really like three to six. And it was like, hey, Andy, just, you know, you're a friend of mine, just want to help you out. I know you work hard. We're buying a lot of Zcash at 100 to 200 Anything in between the 200 to 400 dollar range, I'm buying Zcash. I'm taking one fifth, one seventh, one eighth as numbers that I heard of my kind of long-term BTC, and I'm allocating it into Zcash. So I'm like, okay. So these guys are, you know, these guys are, you know, multiple eight figures, nine figures, Bitcoin since 2013, you know, and something by something like, okay. So this is obviously going to be one of the trades of the cycle. Not yet a Bitcoin, right, in terms of its moneyness or kind of, you know, network effects, but it's kind of coming on to be like this beta asset to Bitcoin. What's your take? Like the whole privacy narrative, the whole quantum narrative, what's your take on Zcash?