Creative anxiety, self-doubt, and procrastination with Fredrik Backman

**Fredrik Backman** (0:00)
A friend of mine said to me, don't take it as an insult, but the thing that you have done better than anyone that I know is you have made the most of your potential. Like, yeah, he could be saying that I had very little potential to begin with, but he said, no, but you have, and I get what he meant. I agree.
I got a little bit further than I should have based on my potential, and I don't have the necessary talents to deal with it, like dealing with success, and I just haven't found my footing in that.

**Adam Grant** (0:37)
Hey, everyone. It's Adam Grant. Welcome back to ReThinking, my podcast with Ted on the science of what makes us tick.
I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.

**Fredrik Backman** (0:53)
Good evening. My name is Fredrik Backman.

**Adam Grant** (0:56)
I first learned of Fredrik Backman from a speech he gave in an event for his publisher.

**Fredrik Backman** (1:01)
I'm here tonight because my agent said that this would be good for my career.
She said I need to learn how to speak in front of people. It will be fun, she said. So I told her that I write books. I spend eight hours every day locked inside a room with people I have made up. If I was comfortable talking to real people, I would have a real job.

**Adam Grant** (1:27)
I was struck by both the heaviness and the humor of what he said in that speech.

**Fredrik Backman** (1:31)
Being a writer is the best way I know how to get paid for being insane.
My brain and I, we are not friends. My brain and I, we are classmates doing a group assignment called life and it's not going great. So, my agent, she said, maybe you can talk about how you suffer from creative anxiety, Fredrik, but I don't have creative anxiety. I never get writer's block and the secret is easy. It's procrastination. I don't want to brag, but I'm very good at procrastination. I'm going to have a writer's block. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

**Adam Grant** (2:12)
Fredrik's first book, A Man Called Ove, was published in Sweden in 2012 and then the US a year later, where it hit the New York Times bestseller list and was made into a film starring Tom Hanks. Fredrik has written 11 books, including eight novels.
His latest novel is called My Friends, but he's still very much sorting through what to do with his success.

**Fredrik Backman** (2:31)
Most people have a cruising altitude where you're comfortable, and I'm just a little bit higher than my preferred cruising altitude would be.

**Adam Grant** (2:40)
This conversation was unlike any other we've published on this show in a way that I really loved. For starters, from the moment we began talking, Fredrik was as unguarded as anyone I've ever spoken with.

**Fredrik Backman** (2:54)
I don't do a lot of interviews and I never know what people expect of me, and I never know why the hell people invite me to stuff, but I'll do what I can.

**Adam Grant** (3:02)
I've got a few reasons. Lots of things I'm excited to talk about. Is there anything you're hoping to either avoid or dive into?

**Fredrik Backman** (3:11)
No, I mean, I avoid everything and dive into nothing. That's my policy in life.

**Adam Grant** (3:19)
I suspected some of Fredrik's humility was the result of the Law of Yante, which is a Scandinavian social code that says no one is better than anyone else. But as we talked, I realized it was much deeper than that, and this quality led to a fascinating conversation.
Would you say you're a beneficiary or a victim of the Law of Yante?

**Fredrik Backman** (3:37)
I mean, we use it, like we make fun of ourselves a lot in Scandinavia, and we use that as kind of like explaining the Scandinavian mentality or the Swedish mentality, you know, don't be too full of yourself, or don't think too highly about yourself, or don't walk around thinking that you're something. I think it's good to be reminded to not let things go to your head.

**Adam Grant** (4:01)
Yeah, I would say that ethos of humility is one of my favorite things about spending time in Scandinavia.
At the same time, I've often heard from people that it can sort of stand in the way of confidence a little bit, self-confidence in particular. And I understand that that's been a bit of a challenge for you as a writer, which is ironic given how widely acclaimed your work has been. I know My Friends has sold over a million copies and you've built quite an audience. So how in the world do you experience a crisis of confidence in the very moment when you're achieving your biggest success?