Corporate Toxicity: How to Neutralise Bad Bosses and Safeguard Talent

**Tim Elliott** (0:03)
This is the Morning Drive, it is Mira Business FM, we're moving from fashion to employment, which considering our next guest, probably a good thing to do. Not because of what you're wearing.

**David Mackenzie** (0:14)
That was a bit savage. That's the opening remark.

**Tim Elliott** (0:18)
That came out badly, didn't it? I know, I've got to work on these intros a bit.

**David Mackenzie** (0:23)
It's a terrible...

**Tim Elliott** (0:23)
And I understand that. No, I meant because you're, like, at the EHR...
God.

**David Mackenzie** (0:30)
You were struggling there a bit as well.

**Tim Elliott** (0:32)
Shall I go straight to there or...?
David Mackenzie is the governor of Mackenzie Jones. There you are. Good to see you.

**David Mackenzie** (0:39)
Good to come back. I like that.

**Tim Elliott** (0:40)
Good to see you. How was Eid? We've not seen you for what, two weeks?

**David Mackenzie** (0:44)
Yeah, well, I went back to see... I had a bit of an emergency with my mum. Went back to see my mum, but I saw my two boys, which is brilliant, the Marine and the guy at Portia we were talking about. So it's lovely. I miss them a lot. And they're 26 and 24 So whoever has kids at like three or four, is struggling with taking them to school, getting up and they're sapping the energy out of your world.
Believe me, you will in the years to come, you'll look back on those days and look at it with sweetness and light and love.

**Tim Elliott** (1:17)
There's a perverse nature to children. They bleed your very soul, and then when they go, you're like, please come back and keep doing it.

**David Mackenzie** (1:24)
I keep saying, one of my oldest boys said, I think you've got attachment issues. Then what do you mean? He goes, you want to be with us all the time, don't you? I'm like, yeah, I really miss you. And they were like, we love that dad.

**Tim Elliott** (1:38)
The but's coming, isn't it? I know. Well, it's nice to see you. The other thing I noticed is you're hiring.

**David Mackenzie** (1:45)
We're hiring a lot. Now, there's a strategy behind this. So the market at the moment is bad. I've got to be honest with you. It's down by, let's say, conservatively 30 percent, maybe 40 percent. Our RPA business is doing a lot better.
My view, and I've been here a long time, and in fact, my colleague, Jas, has written an article about this, about steps the UA has been through in the last 20 years. UA has one constant thing, it always bounces back.

**Tim Elliott** (2:13)
Yeah.

**David Mackenzie** (2:13)
And we're anticipating the bounce back. So we think this year is going to be a fairly flat year.
And we're maintaining our relationships with candidates and clients, just making sure we're there for them, helping them through things. But we reckon Q4, Q1 next year is going to be a bounce back. So we're gearing up our company for that. Now, you could say that's eternally optimistic, but I've been here 20 years, same as you, we've been here a long time. We've seen the bounce backs and it's going to happen again.

**Tim Elliott** (2:40)
All the indicators point towards that. When is obviously the question, but yeah, almost everybody that comes in here. In fact, I think to a man, to a woman, it's, yeah, I'm just waiting for the bounce back. That seems to be the attitude.

**David Mackenzie** (2:54)
I think, I don't know where that's, because we're in the Middle East, we have that mindset of optimism, whereas I think in the UK at the moment, there's this...

**Tim Elliott** (3:04)
Not a lot of optimism around, no.

**David Mackenzie** (3:06)
It's a very different mindset, isn't it?

**Tim Elliott** (3:08)
I mean, we talked about this a lot recently. It's this kind of can-do attitude here, and there's something about, I don't know, there's something about the fact that if you want to do it, give it a go, why not? And that attitude doesn't prevail in lots of other countries.

**David Mackenzie** (3:20)
Yeah, we sort of... Do you remember the American mindset used to be can do, just got to go and do it, and the UK one used to be a bit cynical? I think in the Middle East, we've got it right. There's a bit of both there.

**Tim Elliott** (3:30)
Probably the best way to do it, yeah. But the British one is always to... No, that won't work, rather than... It might. It's not... No, don't bother.

**David Mackenzie** (3:38)
Just try it. Just have a go.