Cliff Obrecht on Canva, AI, and the Future of Creativity

**SPEAKER_1** (0:01)
From October 7th to 9th in San Francisco, the Masters of Scale Summit returns. It's where the boldest minds in business, tech and beyond gather to build the future. And we want you to join us. Here from the CEO of the New York Times, scientists using cutting edge technology to find cures, the leader of Crypto Powerhouse Coinbase, a retired four star general, and many, many more. They're all on the same stage, and it's not just another conference. It is the gathering for Remarkable People. Apply to attend at mastersofscale.com/remarkable.
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**Guy Kawasaki** (0:41)
Hey there, it's Guy Kawasaki. I am the host of the Remarkable People podcast. You're about to listen to a special addition to our podcast. It is an interview between Bob Safian. He is the host of the Rapid Response podcast, and Cliff Obrecht. Cliff is one of the co-founders of Canva. Now, Canva is a company that I work for as chief evangelists. Our mantra is to democratize design. I think it's fair to say that we have pulled that off. So I want you to listen to this episode to learn the history of Canva. There are a lot of very good lessons for anybody interested in tech and design and entrepreneurship. The story is about perseverance and grit and innovation and empathy. This is a special addition to the Remarkable People podcast. Here is Bob Safian and Cliff Obrecht. Thank you for listening.

**Cliff Obrecht** (1:40)
The conversations I'm having here go something like this. Hey CXO, do you know much about Canva? And they're like, yeah, I know a little bit. Like my daughter uses it, et cetera, et cetera. And we're like, do you know you have 6,000 active users who have created over 500,000 designs this year alone? And then they go, what? They do what? And is that all on brand? Who's controlling that? Does our chief brand officer know about this? Et cetera, et cetera. And the answer is like, no, no, no, no, they're all going rogue. And then it's like, holy s***, we've got to do something about this.

**Bob Safian** (2:25)
That's Cliff Obrecht, co-founder and chief operating officer of Canva. As a fast-growing design platform valued at more than $35 billion, Canva is at the heart of a cultural and business battle about AI and the democratization of creativity. Talking with Cliff at the CanLions advertising festival, he explains how he treads the line between support for individual creators and what amazing new tech makes possible. We also talk about how he and his wife, who is his co-founder and Canva's CEO, Melanie Perkins, how they navigate their personal and professional lives, plus why they're giving away $100 million of their own money in Malawi. Cliff is a leader in his own mold, so let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.
I'm Bob Safian, I'm here with Cliff Obrecht, co-founder and chief operating officer for Canva. Cliff, great to have you here.

**Cliff Obrecht** (3:30)
Thank you, Bob. I'm excited to be here.

**Bob Safian** (3:33)
Yeah, we are here in Cannes, France, at the Cannes Lions Advertising Festival. I noticed that you once said that marketing was a weak part at Canva, one of your weakest parts.

**Cliff Obrecht** (3:48)
Okay, okay.

**Bob Safian** (3:49)
Is that why you're here to get better, or is it a reflection that you've figured out the marketing side of it?

**Cliff Obrecht** (3:58)
I think it's a, well, what it is, it's a byproduct of, we're a product-first company, and I feel that good marketing can't out-compete a bad product. Before Canva, there were only professional design tools, and on the other hand, you had Microsoft PowerPoint and Paint. So if you had an idea for something creative, if you want to create an ad, if you want to create any type of beautiful presentation, any type of marketing material for print or web, you had very limited choice. With Canva, we bridged that gap and we allowed people to essentially get an idea and turn it into a design, a beautiful design. People loved our product and people told others about that product, and we grew really, really fast. When you're growing really, really fast and 95 percent of your top of funnel is organic, you don't really have to work too hard on sales and marketing.
It was only about four years ago, we were like, all right, we're kind of big enough now, but we should really double down on this marketing thing, spend a percentage of our overall revenue, and also figure out this whole sales thing. So we've gone on a journey in the last four years. That's been an exciting one. It's really culminated at Canva. We have a beach here and-