CEO of Microsoft AI: The Next 10 Years Will Change Humanity Forever | Mustafa Suleyman

**Marina Mogilko** (0:00)
Are we in an AI bubble? This is Mustafa Suleyman, co-founder of DeepMind, one of the first companies to teach machines how to think. Today, he leads Microsoft AI, one of the magnificent seven shaping the future of our world.

**Mustafa Suleyman** (0:16)
It's the smartest, most capable technology we've ever invented. It's improving faster than anything we've ever seen. And it's very important that we keep reminding ourselves of that. In 25 years time, a large portion of the population are going to struggle to compete in the workplace with AI.

**Marina Mogilko** (0:32)
With that power comes a question none of us can ignore, because the same intelligence that builds our future could also rewrite what it means to be human.

**Mustafa Suleyman** (0:41)
These things don't suffer. They don't feel pain. They're just simulating high-quality conversation. So we've got to be very careful about that.

**Marina Mogilko** (0:49)
AI isn't just learning, it's starting to live with us.

**Mustafa Suleyman** (0:53)
Your personal AI is just going to have ambient awareness of what you're trying to do and talk to you in real time. It is going to remember everything in the future and be perfect if you choose for it to do that.

**Marina Mogilko** (1:02)
So if it remembers everything, what's going to happen to our brains? They don't sleep, they don't forget, they don't feel, but they're learning faster than we ever imagined. So the real question is, what happens to us next?
Mustafa, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

**Mustafa Suleyman** (1:20)
Thanks for having me.

**Marina Mogilko** (1:22)
The first question, everyone's talking about it on YouTube right now. Are we in an AI bubble?

**Mustafa Suleyman** (1:28)
Uh, yes. So, no, we're not. You don't think so? I don't think so. I think, um... When you kind of think about it, we are creating something that is truly magical. Um, intelligence is the thing that has made us successful as a species.
Um, and we're now distilling that into a smaller and smaller unit, um, that can be spread all over the world and that is going to be cheap and widely abundant. So, that's just a remarkable thought, like...

**Marina Mogilko** (2:04)
Yeah, but we kind of had the same thought, you know, during.com crash. It's like, we're inventing internet, love a lot. But there are some companies that, you know, their valuations are much higher than their revenues. And like, everyone's talking about NVIDIA investing, and then that revenue going back to NVIDIA. What do you think about that?

**Mustafa Suleyman** (2:20)
No, I think the value that we're going to produce in the next five to 10 years is going to be unprecedented.

**Marina Mogilko** (2:25)
So, you don't think we're going to experience something like, you know, 2008, COVID?

**Mustafa Suleyman** (2:30)
I mean, who knows? But I think if you think, just focus on the fundamental value that's being created. This is the best prediction engine anyone's ever seen. It's the smartest, most capable technology you've ever invented. It's improving faster than anything we've ever seen. It has got more easy to shape and control, not less. Three years ago, we thought that it was going to get more chaotic and more disorganized, so we weren't going to be able to sculpt it. And now we're producing beautiful, powerful, amazing experiences that are surprising us every month. So, yeah, I know I'm genuinely very bullish.

**Marina Mogilko** (3:05)
Okay, so you're not worried, you're good, and we shouldn't be worried. That makes me feel better. Okay, let's talk about AI becoming more conscious. You talked about it in one of the podcasts that we perceive AI more and more as human. How fast is it happening? What's going to happen in the next few years?

**Mustafa Suleyman** (3:25)
It is getting more human-like. It's getting more accurate. It's getting more fluid, more smooth. And that is unprecedented. At the same time, it's definitely not conscious. It isn't aware of itself. It can't speak about itself. It's very different to what it's like for a human to have a subjective experience and to feel pain and suffering. And it's very important that we keep reminding ourselves of that, because consciousness is the basis of our rights-based framework, and it is the thing that gives us responsibilities as citizens in societies, that allows us to vote, which allows us to be subject to the law, which creates order. Like, you know, we can't begin to attribute this quality to a new species. That would be terrible for our species.

**Marina Mogilko** (4:17)
But we saw stories of Google, the story that you told in your book, of Google engineer who was convinced by AI that it was experiencing sadness and it was afraid of being shut down.